Anyone Switched back to Airsense after Aircurve?

[Apneak]

Hi! I've tried for several weeks to get the settings right on my Aircurve, and I've posted about that specifically here. I'm confident that the settings are fine. But I'm having trouble getting good sleep with it. I think I was fine with the resmed Airsense autoset, and am thinking of switching back to that. Has anyone had a similar experience?

[Dog Slobber]

If you turn off or reset back to default the extra BiLevel features, then won't your AirCurve be acting just like your AirSense Auto?

ie

• trigger/cycle/TiMin/TiMax at default
• ps set to what your AirSense EPR set to

[Apneak]

many on the forum say that, but I've observed the algorithms to be different. I think that the aircurve is more sensitive in it's response to flow limitations....which i thought would be a good thing lol

[Pugsy]

I think that the aircurve is more sensitive in it's response to flow limitations

I actually own both the AirCurve and the AutoSet and I haven't noticed any real difference in response to flow limitations.
I have actually done a lot of experimentation with the various settings on both models.
Now I am not saying that what you think you are experiencing isn't happening but I don't think it is very common at all. Most people who go to the bilevel don't want to go back to single pressures even with adding in EPR to make it a bilevel.
While I can do well with EPR at 3 (which is essentially PS of 3)....I do prefer PS of 4 so I prefer the AirCurve.
Any random small difference in response I normally attribute to the normal variations in sleep from night to night in general.

If I use PS of 3 on the AirCurve and EPR at 3 on the AutoSet.....I can't see enough difference to impact anything. I don't see a difference in response to flow limitations but then again I don't have many or much in flow limitations to respond to. I never have had many Fls.

Perhaps this is just another one of those YMMV things that pretty much comes with everything related to cpap.

[palerider]

many on the forum say that, but I've observed the algorithms to be different. I think that the aircurve is more sensitive in it's response to flow limitations....which i thought would be a good thing lol

"Observations" can be fraught with inaccuracies due to failing to consider all the variables.

[mets123]

I had significant flow limitations with the airsense that affected my sleep. When I switched to the aircurve vauto my flow limitations are virtually all gone. Also not waking up do to runaway pressures.

[Apneak]

I agree its flow curve mapping is superior, (Despite palerider's insistence, I'm confident the flow curve algorithm is a different algorithm than on the airsense EPR), and it does respond to flow limitations better (a more sensitive pressure response algorithm). I wish that you could switch it to a softer pressure response though, like in the airsense, because I feel like it jumps up and down way too much, as it reacts to flow limitations.

I'm going to try out the airsense again. I know that a lot of my "Central Apneas" or "clear airways" are a result of me moving around so much, and that then drives a lot of the volatility in the pressure levels...not sure why I am moving around so much, so I want to see if I do the same thing with the ol' airsense (I didn't have this problem before).

Will report back.

If you look at the resmed product pages, Resmed specifically mentions Easy-Breath Waveform for the Aircurve, and not the Airsense (though they do mention an Easy-Breathe Motor for quiet)....

[chunkyfrog]

Both machines could easily be using the same algorithm,
but the tolerances might differ--but I'm a frog--what do I know?
Since Palerider has dived deeply into programming,
he is probably not blowing it out his ear.
Maybe the Aircurve is defective?

[Lifeisabeach]

If you look at the resmed product pages, Resmed specifically mentions Easy-Breath Waveform for the Aircurve, and not the Airsense (though they do mention an Easy-Breathe Motor for quiet)....

Easy-Breathe is an option in the clinician's menu on the AirCurve. You can "simply" turn it off, though I personally have it on. I had markedly higher AHIs with it off compared to having it on.

[Dog Slobber]

I had significant flow limitations with the airsense that affected my sleep. When I switched to the aircurve vauto my flow limitations are virtually all gone. Also not waking up do to runaway pressures.

When I switched from the AirSense to the AirCurve my flow limitations were reduced as well. But not because I switched to an AirCurve, it was because I had an extra CM of PS support.

On the AirSense my minimum was 8.2-11.2
On the AirCurve my minimum was 8.2-12.2

That extra CM of pressure explains the reduced flow limitations.

If you look at the resmed product pages, Resmed specifically mentions Easy-Breath Waveform for the Aircurve, and not the Airsense (though they do mention an Easy-Breathe Motor for quiet)....

The Easy-Breathe algorithm is not available in VAuto Mode, it is only available in S mode. So no, this is NOT evidence that the AirCurve's algorithm or sensitivities is different than the AirSense.

Easy-Breathe is an option in the clinician's menu on the AirCurve. You can "simply" turn it off, though I personally have it on. I had markedly higher AHIs with it off compared to having it on.

The Easy-Breathe algorithm is only available to turn off when you are in S mode, it's not presented in VAuto mode, because it can't be turned on or off unless one is in S mode.

[Apneak]

no easybreathe is on by default in vauto...you can turn it only turn it off on S mode...that's why you see it.

[Dog Slobber]

no easybreathe is on by default in vauto...you can turn it only turn it off on S mode...that's why you see it.

Are you serious?

So what you're suggesting is:

• In VAuto mode, it's on by default
• And if you want to turn it off, you go into S mode to make the option appear
• You can then turn it off
• Then you go back into VAuto mode

That doesn't make sense and is completely inconsistent with how any of the features are presented.

It's also inconsistent with the VAuto Clinician manual which clearly says; Easy-Breathe is a comfort feature available in S mode.

Easy-Breathe.png

[Apneak]

I was serious, but clearly mistaken. Thanks. I just didn't thik that it could be turned off in vauto. Do you know why they have it S and not Auto?


The Aircurve product page does imply otherwise though:

"The AirCurve™ 10 VAuto is an auto-adjusting bilevel machine that uses the comfort of both the AutoSet™ algorithm and Easy-Breathe waveform in its VAuto algorithm to treat patients with challenging obstructive sleep apnoea conditions who can benefit from greater pressure support."

[Lifeisabeach]

I was serious, but clearly mistaken. Thanks. I just didn't thik that it could be turned off in vauto. Do you know why they have it S and not Auto?


The Aircurve product page does imply otherwise though:

"The AirCurve™ 10 VAuto is an auto-adjusting bilevel machine that uses the comfort of both the AutoSet™ algorithm and Easy-Breathe waveform in its VAuto algorithm to treat patients with challenging obstructive sleep apnoea conditions who can benefit from greater pressure support."

I just started using VAuto mode yesterday due to my own ongoing difficulties getting my AHI under control. I'm very familiar with how S-Mode "feels" with Easy-Breathe on vs off, and right now, in VAuto Mode, it feels like Easy-Breathe is on. I don't have that rapid transition from IPAP to EPAP and vice-versa that I had when in S-Mode when E-B was off. Dog Slobber is correct that the option to enable or disable E-B isn't present when in VAuto mode, so either E-B is automatically on for this mode as it feels to be from my brief experience so far, or my impression is flawed due to the difference in the pressures now being delivered.

[Dog Slobber]

I was serious, but clearly mistaken. Thanks. I just didn't thik that it could be turned off in vauto. Do you know why they have it S and not Auto?


The Aircurve product page does imply otherwise though:

"The AirCurve™ 10 VAuto is an auto-adjusting bilevel machine that uses the comfort of both the AutoSet™ algorithm and Easy-Breathe waveform in its VAuto algorithm to treat patients with challenging obstructive sleep apnoea conditions who can benefit from greater pressure support."

I just started using VAuto mode yesterday due to my own ongoing difficulties getting my AHI under control. I'm very familiar with how S-Mode "feels" with Easy-Breathe on vs off, and right now, in VAuto Mode, it feels like Easy-Breathe is on. I don't have that rapid transition from IPAP to EPAP and vice-versa that I had when in S-Mode when E-B was off. Dog Slobber is correct that the option to enable or disable E-B isn't present when in VAuto mode, so either E-B is automatically on for this mode as it feels to be from my brief experience so far, or my impression is flawed due to the difference in the pressures now being delivered.

I should make my position clear.

I don't know whether Easy-Breathe is always present in VAuto mode.

It's not an option presented in the VAuto mode menus, nor is it mentioned as being present when in VAuto mode in the clinical manual. But, I certainly accept that it might be always on in VAuto mode (just not the default, as that suggests it can be turned off).

Easy-Breathe was brought into this discussion as evidence that the Air-Curve algorithm or sensitivity must be different than the AirSense, and my position is there is no evidence of that. If Easy-Breathe is an undocumented element of the the AirCurve algorithm, it could also be undocumented within the AirSense algorithm.

The fact is; there are a few people making claims that they use different algorithms or have different sensitivities to flow limitations, but the claims are just based on "feel". No one has yet to supply a comparison of an identically configured AirCurve to an AirSense.

Why not?