SleepHq data sharing - Time Zone issues solved!

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ozij
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SleepHq data sharing - Time Zone issues solved!

Post by ozij » Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:11 am

----------------------------------------------------
Edit; The issue which started this discussion was corrected in mid-November of 2022.
----------------------------------------------------
lynninnj wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:55 am
ozij wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:47 am
lynninnj wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:31 am
I believe I have had the best nights sleep last night that I have had in years and years
:shock:
Umm.... am I seeing a bug in SleepHQ? From my part of the world, it looks like you went to sleep at 04:23 AM. And there was a break at 11:30AM or so.
:? :?:
Well THATS weird.

When I clicked the link it showed I went to bed around 9:22 which is really 10:22 because the only way to fix the time zone setting will erase the data and I am hoping at daylight savings it will be correct.
[...]
Definitely a time zone issue. Same times on the new link lynninnj created. I get the time for my own timezone - not for the sleeper's -- which would be great if it were my own data - but rather problematic when users want to share.
I'm assuming lynninnj is from NJ, I'm from a timezone 7 hours away.
9:22 PM + 7 make for 4:22 AM in my time zone.

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Last edited by ozij on Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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lynninnj
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Re: SleepHq data sharing - Time Zone issues!

Post by lynninnj » Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:25 am

ozij wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:11 am
lynninnj wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:55 am
ozij wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:47 am
lynninnj wrote:
Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:31 am
I believe I have had the best nights sleep last night that I have had in years and years
:shock:
Umm.... am I seeing a bug in SleepHQ? From my part of the world, it looks like you went to sleep at 04:23 AM. And there was a break at 11:30AM or so.
:? :?:
Well THATS weird.

When I clicked the link it showed I went to bed around 9:22 which is really 10:22 because the only way to fix the time zone setting will erase the data and I am hoping at daylight savings it will be correct.
[...]
Definitely a time zone issue. Same times on the new link lynninnj created. I get the time for my own timezone - not for the sleeper's -- which would be great if it were my own data - but rather problematic when users want to share.
I'm assuming lynninnj is from NJ, I'm from a timezone 7 hours away.
9:22 PM + 7 make for 4:22 AM in my time zone.
So we're ok?

I didn't go to sleep at 11AM? (JK)

Thanks.

I just noticed on RyNs thread that his time looked weird to me also. I think hes five hours off of me but its possible MY Data is off by an hour too so....well....

I just know it was a nice 7.5 hours!

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Re: SleepHq data sharing - Time Zone issues!

Post by ozij » Sat Aug 27, 2022 11:33 am

I suggest that anyone who posts a SleepHQ link for sharing add their time zone info -- at least until the developers realize they have to ask people for their time zone, and people who want to respond to spcecific questions about what happend at a specific time use https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html to find out which point in the graph the question refers to.

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Re: SleepHq data sharing - Time Zone issues!

Post by Respirator99 » Sat Aug 27, 2022 7:10 pm

Nicko mentioned a couple of days ago that this problem is on the to do list and a fix is imminent.
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Re: SleepHq data sharing - Time Zone issues!

Post by ozij » Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:17 pm

Bump.
A reminder that every viewer of SleepHQ data sees the time of their own time zone on the charts.

And this has not yet been corrected.

May I suggest the people who share their SleeHQ charts specifically mention their time zone and its offset from the UTC (Universal Time Clock), as a courtesy to those who live far away from them? That will also make discussions of what happened when smoother and more reliable.

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Re: SleepHq data sharing - Time Zone issues!

Post by chunkyfrog » Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:51 pm

Now I see what they were doing.
Tethering patients to their local providers.
Even if those providers are grossly incompetent.
Nice! :twisted:

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Re: SleepHq data sharing - Time Zone issues!

Post by Respirator99 » Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:14 pm

ozij wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:17 pm
Bump.
A reminder that every viewer of SleepHQ data sees the time of their own time zone on the charts.

And this has not yet been corrected.

May I suggest the people who share their SleeHQ charts specifically mention their time zone and its offset from the UTC (Universal Time Clock), as a courtesy to those who live far away from them? That will also make discussions of what happened when smoother and more reliable.
There is a lot of stuff in SleepHQ that has been promised but not delivered. Can't complain too much as it's a free service but it would be good to see this timezone issue fixed. However I don't think it's likely to happen soon: Nicko & Adam have explained it's a function of hosting the data on a central server for rendering via the web. The explanation didn't make sense to me, but what do I know?

I agree - SleepHQ users should include their timezone in the post.
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Re: SleepHq data sharing - Time Zone issues!

Post by Respirator99 » Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:19 pm

chunkyfrog wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:51 pm
Now I see what they were doing.
Tethering patients to their local providers.
Even if those providers are grossly incompetent.
Nice! :twisted:
What on Earth are you talking about? Are you responding to the right thread?
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Re: SleepHq data sharing - Time Zone issues!

Post by chunkyfrog » Sat Nov 12, 2022 11:51 pm

Respirator99 wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:19 pm
chunkyfrog wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:51 pm
Now I see what they were doing.
Tethering patients to their local providers.
Even if those providers are grossly incompetent.
Nice! :twisted:
What on Earth are you talking about? Are you responding to the right thread?
Obvious to me: the reticence of SleepHQ developers to address the issue
of time zones is a desire to prevent patients from seeking help or advice
from online forums as this one. How are you unable to see this?

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Re: SleepHq data sharing - Time Zone issues!

Post by Respirator99 » Sun Nov 13, 2022 3:55 am

Obvious to me: the reticence of SleepHQ developers to address the issue
of time zones is a desire to prevent patients from seeking help or advice
from online forums as this one. How are you unable to see this?
Sometimes I wonder how you survive with such a warped view of the world.

Explain to me exactly how the timezone issue prevents people using forums such as this one. The exact same problem occurs on Nicko's Facebook forum. If he was using the TZ as a means of keeping people on his own forum, don't you think he would fix the problem there?

The real answer is that they set it up this way without foreseeing the difficulties and now it's difficult to change without spending time and money recoding part of the system. At the same time they're trying to deliver long-promised updates and the TZ issue is not a high priority for Nicko and Adam, despite my prompting.
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Re: SleepHq data sharing - Time Zone issues!

Post by robysue1 » Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:52 am

Respirator99 wrote:
Sun Nov 13, 2022 3:55 am
chunkyfrog wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 11:51 pm
Obvious to me: the reticence of SleepHQ developers to address the issue
of time zones is a desire to prevent patients from seeking help or advice
from online forums as this one. How are you unable to see this?
Sometimes I wonder how you survive with such a warped view of the world.

Explain to me exactly how the timezone issue prevents people using forums such as this one. The exact same problem occurs on Nicko's Facebook forum. If he was using the TZ as a means of keeping people on his own forum, don't you think he would fix the problem there?

The real answer is that they set it up this way without foreseeing the difficulties and now it's difficult to change without spending time and money recoding part of the system. At the same time they're trying to deliver long-promised updates and the TZ issue is not a high priority for Nicko and Adam, despite my prompting.
I personally think the time zone issue is one of sloppy programming decisions rather than some malevolent attempt at preventing patients from seeking help/advice from on line forums.

The very fact that SleepHQ is set up so the patient can easily share a link to the actual data on an anonymous platform so that anybody with the link can not only access that data, but also analyze it by zooming in and scrolling through it, points to a genuine desire to help patients get help from forums like this one.

That said, it ought to be reasonably easy to at least add a field in the SleepyHQ report for "Patient's Time Zone" that that tells anybody looking at the data what time zone the patient is in so that they can properly deduce the correct local time for the patient.

And having said that, I also wonder something about how Resmed machines actually timestamp their data: Do they use local time from the machine's settings or GMT (calculated from local time, perhaps?) to time stamp the data?

I know that PR machines up through and including the DreamStation 1 time stamp the actual data on the card with the machine's notion of what time it is in GMT. And to view the data in Encore Pro you have to enter a local time zone. (Encore Pro is the PR software for viewing data on machines up to and including the DreamStation 1.) However, the battery responsible for maintaining the internal clock cannot be reset and the clocks are known to drift away from GMT at unpredictable rates. (My 2016 PR DreamStation BiPAP Auto's clock currently needs an offset of -1:13:50 in Oscar/SleepyHead whereas my husband's 2014 PR System One (Series 60) Auto's clock currently needs an offset of +32:06.) You can't fix the clock drift if you are using Encore Pro to look at the data.

I also know that you have to set the local time (correctly) when you first set up a Resmed machine. (And adjustments to that time have to be done carefully, as Miss Emitra found out the hard way. So the question is: Does Resmed use the machine's local time setting to create the timestamps on the data? Or does it do something else? When I set up the AirCurve 10 that I'm borrowing from Pugsy, I don't recall a "time zone" setting on the AirCurve, but I did have to set the local time correctly in order to get the time stamps on the data to show up correctly.

So it's not clear to me what decisions were made by SleepHQ's programmers that led to using the viewer's time zone when looking at time stamped data in the daily data part of the web application.
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Re: SleepHq data sharing - Time Zone issues!

Post by ozij » Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:18 am

ResMed A10 takes the time from whatever is set up in the CPAP, and that's what OSCAR shows.

SleepHQ uses the computer's (or phone's) browser to show the data.

Our computers and phones get their local time according time zones.

SleepHQ's programmers simply didn't think of the fact the when the uploaded data got presented on computers/phones, the dates would be fit to the presenting machine.

When I see the time for any messages on CPAP.com, it's my local time
Ditto for the date and time in info about my emails - even my non-cloud e-mail program shows when the mail was sent according to my time zone, not the sender's. Which is actually very sensible for most things.

SleepHQ should add a question to the user's profile about their time zone, and present it as an offset from UTC above the graphs. That would help everyone who wants to discuss the data.... This is not a solution to the basic presentation problem, but it would certainly help.

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Re: SleepHq data sharing - Time Zone issues!

Post by Respirator99 » Sun Nov 13, 2022 10:01 am

It's definitely sloppy programming in my view. I asked the question on the CPAP Reviews Facebook forum and got this response from Nicko...
Hey mate, i don’t think it’s possible to be ‘fixed’. Personally i feel time is irrelevant for analysis and if required you can always share a zoomed in link to any part of any chart you require 👍 The Best Way To Share Your CPAP Therapy Results - Zoom In! #shorts
https://youtube.com/shorts/U1r94ZlQO9w?feature=share
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Re: SleepHq data sharing - Time Zone issues!

Post by chunkyfrog » Sun Nov 13, 2022 11:02 am

I concur. Apparently gross ineptitude, rather than simple malice--or greed.

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Re: SleepHq data sharing - Time Zone issues!

Post by palerider » Sun Nov 13, 2022 1:36 pm

robysue1 wrote:
Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:52 am
I personally think the time zone issue is one of sloppy programming decisions rather than some malevolent attempt at preventing patients from seeking help/advice from on line forums.

The very fact that SleepHQ is set up so the patient can easily share a link to the actual data on an anonymous platform so that anybody with the link can not only access that data, but also analyze it by zooming in and scrolling through it, points to a genuine desire to help patients get help from forums like this one.

That said, it ought to be reasonably easy to at least add a field in the SleepyHQ report for "Patient's Time Zone" that that tells anybody looking at the data what time zone the patient is in so that they can properly deduce the correct local time for the patient.
It would be *easier* to just keep the date of the data as it was imported. there's no reason to change the dates and times based on the *viewer* of the data.
That's just stupid programming.
Oscar has a field for time zone... as did Sleephead... but it doesn't *DO* anything, because it doesn't NEED to do anything. JMark had some apocalyptic meltdowns about TZ offset stuff, (it's really exceedingly complicated) and ended up turning it all off back in 0.98 of sleephead, iirc.
robysue1 wrote:
Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:52 am
And having said that, I also wonder something about how Resmed machines actually timestamp their data: Do they use local time from the machine's settings or GMT (calculated from local time, perhaps?) to time stamp the data?
Resmed's up through the air10 machines use local time off the machine's clock, they have no concept of time zones.
I'm not sure about the Air11 machines, I haven't seen data from one of them, there's a time zone setting in the manual, it looks like they get time from the cell networks... I wonder what they do for patients that aren't in cell service range.
robysue1 wrote:
Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:52 am
Does Resmed use the machine's local time setting to create the timestamps on the data?
yes. There's no time zone anything, it's just local time on the S9 and Air10. I don't know anything about the time settings on the S8 and previous machines, never had one.
robysue1 wrote:
Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:52 am
So it's not clear to me what decisions were made by SleepHQ's programmers that led to using the viewer's time zone when looking at time stamped data in the daily data part of the web application.
Programmers sometimes do stupid things too :D

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