Anyone else experience trouble with Vantage?

[Slinky]

SthnReb, it is only because you brought up finding the warranty in your manual that it occurred to me to read my Resmed manual. No need to apologize or feel "picked on". I, for one, am glad you inspired me to check the warranty in my Resmed manual!!!

Kind of tickled me tho when I dug out the manual for the PR SystemOne BPAP Auto w/Bi-Flex. It is as you stated EXCEPT (shades of the M Series integrated humidifier!!!) the warranty now reads "This warranty does not cover damage caused by accident, misuse, abuse, alteration, water ingress, and other defects not related to material or workmanship."

*The bold emphasis is mine. I thought it was an interesting addition to their warranty given their experience w/their M Series integrated humidifier and their current touting of their new PR S1 "Drybox humidifier technology".

[sthnreb]

Yep, you're right! Mine is the M series and I do have the heated humidifier. They revised the tank to a "J" inlet which is supposed to take care of the water getting into the machine. I guess as long as it doesn't get pulled off of a table or moved with water in it, you are ok. I guess water could get back into any. Maybe they need some sort of backflow valve as in plumbing? It was my understanding the M could still be better than the PR System One. They make a cheaper machine and sell for more money which equals more profit. Maybe I will go with a Resmed next time. https://www.cpap.com/cpap-machine/resme ... chine.html#
It was just that I remember all the trouble I went through regarding the warranty and someone telling me I was wrong and quoting laws etc. I try to read what people put on the forum and try to assume they are speaking from experiences. The emails concerning it are probably long gone and I doubt I could retrieve those, especially the one from Respironics. However the warranty does speak for itself as stated. I guess Respironics got blasted pretty good and it must have cost them a bit with the water problem so they added that? I knew that never really made sense to me either about it beginning when it left their dock. If a dealer warehoused machines a month or so, it could become legally a 1 yr 11 month warranty. Or even if they had it a year. Accordingly, the storage time eats into the warranty the way it is worded. It is my understanding that they do make allowances for such an incident though. (They wouldn't have to according to warranty). I read a lot of your posts.....very good too. Did you have a M series and now the PR One? How do you compare the two? I was going to go with the PR System One.

[yorkiemum01]

I must admit with all the knowledge you two posted on the warranties, someone who hasn't read the fine
print may benefit from this refresher. I too, find the 'water ingress' a humorous condition of the terms of the warranty. They may as well add 'electrical malfunction' so therefore if you plug in the unit, the warranty can become
null and void, ha!
Anyhow, never did receive a response from Resmed, but did decide to unplug & then reset my unit, bringing it back to the factory settings and working my way through the clinicians menu to set my Rx.....and so far, so good. Suppose it's time to
start researching for a replacement unit in the future and since I purchase mine outright, want the best bang for the dollar.
Hope everyone has a fantastic and safe Independence day! Enjoy family, friends, fireworks...and it's World Cup series day for me, woohooo! (GOOOOO Argentina- ha! had to throw that in) Be well.

[Slinky]

No, SthrnRebel, I never did own an M Series. In fact, when looking for a backup for my Resmed S8 Elite, because of what I was reading in this forum, I deliberately looked long and hard for a new or lightly used Respironics pre-M Series Auto w/C-Flex which had been discontinued - and found a new one. I knew from the get-go I did NOT ever want an M Series. Not because of just the humidifier tank problem, but also its propensity to drop data one or two nights a month, and I forget what else now.

When I was switched to a bi-level I insisted on the Resmed VPAP Auto and when I went looking for a backup for the VPAP Auto I looked long and hard to find a lightly used or new Respironics pre-M Series BPAP Auto w/Bi-Flex and wouldn't even consider the Respironics M Series BPAP Auto w/Bi-Flex. From all I have read in the various apnea support forums the M Series was NOT one of Respironics' better endeavors so I never had any desire to own one.

However, when the new PR SystemOnes came out, and the Resmed S9s, I was interested. Resmed hasn't come out w/an S9 VPAP Auto yet so I was very fortunate to obtain a PR SystemOne BPAP Auto w/Bi-Flex. If it weren't that I really detest EncorePro I would be very happy w/this PR S1 BPAP Auto. Resmed's ResScan is so much the better software in my opinion. There are things I like better about my Resmed VPAP Auto but I get every bit as good therapy w/the PR S1 BPAP Auto and there are the extra capabilities of the PR S1 that I like.

[Slinky]

In all fairness I realized that when I had opted to not type up the entire Resmed VPAP Auto warranty just as SthrnRebel hadn't typed up the entire Respironics M Series warranty and I hadn't typed up the entire PR SystemOne warranty which wasn't all that important and were all pretty much the same I did fail to leave out some pertinent Resmed wording:

LIMITED WARRANTY
Resmed warrants that your ResMed product shall be free from defects in material and workmanship for the period specified below from the date of purchase by the initial consumer. This warranty is not transferrable.

ResMed flow generators - Warranty Period 2 years

Warranty does not cover:
a] any damage caused as a result of improper use, abuse, modification or alteration of the product;
b] repairs carried out by any service organization that has not been expressly authorized by ResMed to perform such repairs;
c] any damage or contamination due to cigarette, pipe, cigar or other smoke;
d] any damage caused by water being spilled on or into a flow generator.

... Warranty is void on product sold, or resold, outside the region of original purchase. Warranty claims on defective product must be made by the initial consumer at the point of purchase."

[sthnreb]

You are right, I did not type up the entire warranty. But the point was made that the warranty began when it left Respironics dock to the dealer. Just as you you got the Resmed warranty across too. I would think most on the forum have either a Resmed or Respironics machine and have the same warranty info in the back of their book. Thanks for the added info though. I would be glad to add the complete warranty info from Respironics if anyone deems it necessary. It's basically common warranty lingo if you look at it in your booklet. Thanks for the clarification on Resmed Slinky...........

[Slinky]

Hey, I didn't include the entire Resmed warranty. Really we all need to check our own. But what we both left out I'm pretty sure were the general disclaimers such as:

"... Some regions or states do not alllow limitations on how long an implied warranty lasts, so the above limitation may not apply to you. ..."

"... Some regions or states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation may not apply to you. This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may also have other rights which vary from region to region. ..."

which would seem to somewhat substantiate BookBear's reference to "the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975 - 15 U.S.C. § 2301 - and various FTC regulations relating to it", etc.

Maybe that is why there are Limited Warranties now instead of the old Guarantees we used to see come w/products. I wouldn't count on holding Respironics or Resmed to any more than what is stated in the Users Manual Limited Warranty.

[Bookbear]

Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975 must be squirlley too or non-existant.

Here is the text of the Act, which is very much in existence, and still in effect: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/ ... 10_50.html

which would seem to somewhat substantiate BookBear's reference to "the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975 - 15 U.S.C. § 2301 - and various FTC regulations relating to it", etc.

Magnusson-Moss is still the law of the land, and broadly governs the application of manufacturer's warranties to domestic commercial situations. The FTC regulations provide the actual implementation of the Act's provisions. In addition, states may, at their discretion, increase the consumer protections provided by Magnusson-Moss and the FTC, but they cannot diminish them. States can, for example, mandate that warranties be transferable during the time period specified, even if the manufacturer says they are not transferable. If you live in such a state (California is one) such a provision, even if stated in the warranty, does not apply to you if you purchased the item in that state. A state could not, for example, stipulate that a warranty cover a time period shorter than the one stated in manufacturer's warranty, or free a manufacturer from the requirement that the purchaser be provided with a written copy of the warranty, since such actions would diminish the protections provided by the manufacturer or the stipulations of Federal law.

...Maybe that is why there are Limited Warranties now instead of the old Guarantees we used to see come w/products. I wouldn't count on holding Respironics or Resmed to any more than what is stated in the Users Manual Limited Warranty.

The change in wording from 'guarantee' to 'warranty' really took off with Magnusson-Moss in 1975. In law, the term 'guarantee' has a long history of understood meaning and interpretation, and its use creates certain legal presumptions and restrictions. The term 'warranty' is much looser (there's a reason why they are called 'limited' warranties!). Since a manufacturer could specify restrictions and limits to coverage and remedies under Magnusson-Moss, and since such terms would likely conflict with the implied meaning of 'guarantee'; the term 'warranty' came into almost universal use after 1975.

[yorkiemum01]

Well well........I received my reply from Resmed:

ResMed is a manufacturer and does not conduct business with the general public. I have copied the dealer
locator to further assist since you are unable to reach anyone live.

[yorkiemum01]

Still so peeved......all I asked of "Resmed" was where may I ship my unit for repair ? They dont "deal with the general public". Well, who the +!@$# do they think is using their equiptment...Dolphins/Apes?

[yorkiemum01]

Suppose my sleep deprivation is making me a bit edgy.

[DoriC]

Reminds me of the BP guy who called those suffering "the little people". I hope your machine has settled down for now. A few weeks ago for no reason our Smart Card started beeping but luckily I had another one.. I kept trying to insert it for a few nights to test it but it still beeped,then the other night I tried it again and it was fine and gave me data the next day and has not caused a problem since.

[yorkiemum01]

No, it only continued to get worse. Continued to shut down & restart over and over...until I couldnt take it any
longer. One Resmed rep. felt my 'sensor' had gone bad......whatever. I broke down and called a DME friday and gave them my unit to ship to Resmed for repair and renting a loaner (sleep deprivation got the best of me). Now will wait
and see how much this is going to set me back $$

[Slinky]

Well, despite your Vantage being more than two years old, w/only roughly 14 months worth of use in hours, you MAY get lucky w/Resmed and your Vantage. Resmed providers ARE supposed to handle any Resmed PAP whether you bought it from them or not. BUT - some do NOT. I ran into one. Resmed DOES keep track of their dealers who do NOT honor that.

When Resmed had the big recall several years ago I had purchased a very lightly used Vantage that was subject to the Recall. My sheister DME provider at the time (the one referred to above) would NOT handle the Recall. I made sure that Resmed was aware of that. Resmed had Steri-Cycle replace my Vantage for me. And Resmed paid the providers and Steri-Cycle very well for handling the Recalls. I forget which one got paid what for handling the Recall but one or the other got paid at least $150 per unit and I don't remember the reimbursement for the other. Just to accept the Vantage, pack it up to ship to Resmed, acccpt shipment of the replacement and see that the end user received the replacement.

Hmmmm. I wonder .... after all this time ... if YOUR Vantage had been subject to Recall you SHOULD have been notified and replaced. I wonder if somehow it fell between the cracks. There's a list of Serial Numbers subject to the Recall somewhere. Rested Gal could probably point you to it in a flash. But ... do you even know the Serial Number of your Vantage now that you've given it to the local DME provider to send to Resmed?? Check your receipt and see if it is on there. The first 4 numbers are the year it was made, the next two are the month it was made. You might try a web search on Resmed recall and see if you find a link to the Serial Numbers involved. Resmed will honor that even now after all this while if it is one of those involved in the Recall. No charge.

[yorkiemum01]

Thank you for thinking of that info and passing it on Slinky. I did some research, and although my unit
was manufactured the same year, it wasn't one of the serial numbers included in their recall. Keeping
my fingers crossed this won't be a costly venture, and I will keep the thread going with results when they notify
me. Certainly hoping I wont have to purchase a replacement.