The econonmics of ASV

[rocklin]

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An ability to “stir the pot” is perceived as power by the powerless

Anyone can stir a pot, sir.

Just as you attempted to do just now.

But the ability to season a pot?

Priceless.



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[tetragon]

Be there, or be . . .

What does de Morgan have to do with any of this?

[rocklin]

What does de Morgan have to do with any of this?

Nothing.

I wrote:

Be there, or be . . .

and the missing word is: square.

Be there, or be square

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But instead of writing the word, I did an image search for square objects and diagrams.

I found de Morgan's semi-square diagram (it is more of a rectangle than a true square).

And posted that image instead of the word.

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And you ask why I did that instead of just writing the word "square"?

Ah, why.

(the lights dim. An MC hands me a microphone.

I turn and face the audience for the first time.

They gasp.

My skin is dark chocolate.

My eyes as beautiful as any woman's.

My afro hair glistens in the night.

I am Michael Jackson, at age 20, and, in person, I am so beautiful it's devastating, there's just no other word for it.



I nod to the band: "Hit it, boys" )

Looking out across the night-time
The city winks a sleepless eye
Hear her voice shake my window
Sweet seducing sighs

Get me out into the night-time
Four walls won't hold me tonight
If this town is just an apple
Then let me take a bite

If they say, why, why? Tell 'em that is human nature
Why, why does he do me that way?
If they say, why, why? Tell 'em that is human nature
Why, why does he do me that way?

Reaching out to touch a stranger
Electric eyes are everywhere
See that girl, she knows I'm watching
She likes the way I stare

If they say, why, why? Tell 'em that is human nature
Why, why does he do me that way?
If they say, why, why? Tell 'em that is human nature

Why, why does he do me that way?

I like livin' this way, I like lovin' this way

Looking out across the morning
The city's heart begins to beat
Reaching out, I touch her shoulder
I'm dreaming of the street

If they say, why, why? Tell 'em that is human nature
Why, why does he do me that way?
If they say, why, why? Ooh, tell 'em
Why, why does he do me that way?

[rocklin]

Nice.

Many levels there.

Thanks.

But we really need to return for a while to the subject at hand: The Economics (and politics) of ASV.

Or even more importantly, how the members of CPAPtalk, working together, could solve much of their sleep apnea.

It's called Distributed Intelligence.

Many minds working as one, to solve one problem.

Very popular on the internet right now, used by a number of cutting edge businesses to solve seemingly intractable problems.

But first, more of the "active and posting" people here have to want to change.

You can lead a horse to water . . .




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[rocklin]

American culture does not put a very high priority on sleep.

Sleep is for pussies.

What's that great, savage, capitalism-at-it's-most-nihilistic quote?

You can catch up on your sleep when you're dead.

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At the risk of insulting all of cpap, this is my favorite for the past 2 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFxNL2srXQY

OMG!

Jay and Silent Bob!

I love them.

Did you see Jay's ferocious speech in Chasing Amy?

Surf Gangsta meets Leonard Cohen.
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[rocklin]

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Why is it that the USA is the biggest consumer of uppers?

Cause we gotta keep on the move.

Never stopping.

Dance, dance, dance.

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Old Joke:

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What the loneliest moment in the world?

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The two second silence at Studio 54 when they change records.

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[rocklin]

Dance, dance, dance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v67WuP5TU4w

[VVV]

Now where was I?

[SleepingUgly]

Now where was I?

It's hard to keep a train of thought around here, isn't it?

[jnk]

Or give one away.

[VVV]

I think it's worth distinguishing that some of those non-corporate grant (risk) scenarios endeavour to pursue social benefits, whereas ROI groups risk capital specifically toward financial benefit. That's not to say capitalistic investment is devoid of social benefit. But I think the risk/benefit dynamics are different in these two product-development scenarios.

We are getting further from agreement instead of closer.

First, capitalistic investment must always have as its primary goal social benefit.

Well the next time any salesperson stretches the truth to gain your money, or the next time any boardroom full of executives create golden parachutes amidst abysmal company profits, tell yourself their primary goal was social benefit.

On the contrary capital gain was their PRIMARY decision-making influence and their primary goal. Social benefit is both a byproduct and a secondary decision-making feedback control.

We will continue to disagree on this point I am sure.

To the contrary profits are a byproduct and a feedback control of investment (copying your terminology).

The first corporations in the U.S. (after the British were defeated) were formed to build canals and roads - strictly a social benefit. Of course the corporations could not just start building canals and roads. They needed capital to hire workers and buy materials, mules, and equipment.

It was decided that anyone who invested capital would be "allowed" to earn a profit. The investors that began to put up the money were all people who wanted the roads and canals built. A secondary consideration for them was earning money on their investment.

It is still the same today. Whether a cancer-fighting drug or a new type of personal electronic device the social benefit is the primary purpose. The ability to earn a profit is the test or as you call it "a secondary decision-making feedback control". (You use terminology more like a business consultant than this business consultant uses. )

BTW, I thought that was a dirty and disingenuous attempt to besmirch market economies by comparing them to a heroin pusher. But I will be gentleman enough to fully debate that case if you so care to.

[VVV]

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And I suspect you live in a little town.

(and sure enough:)

if I go through my little town and ask . . .

I knew it!

Yes, quite a fine little town.

But ceding to your metropolitan tastes, from an upper bedroom window I can see the towers of a major MSA and with the binocs the very top of an NFL scoreboard.

15 minutes to a major airport hub, 20 minutes to center city, and quite close to major suburban shopping/restaurant areas. Yet deer running through my lawn.

BTW, my son was in Manhattan this morning for an interview. 43F and raining heavy. Better him than me.

[jnk]

Until -SWS returns to speak for himself, I'll play awhile, if you don't mind.

We will continue to disagree on this point I am sure.

Only if you continue to argue it.

To the contrary profits are a byproduct and a feedback control of investment (copying your terminology).

Many methods and motives are employed in the pursuit of profits. The point is that if money is given for reasons other than payment or the pursuit of profit, it is generally called a donation or a gift.

The further point is that there are for-profit associations and then there are not-for-profit associations. Their differing purposes are generally self-evident to most.

I thought that was a dirty and disingenuous attempt to besmirch market economies by comparing them to a heroin pusher.

I did not.

The heroin business, legal or not, is a market in which people buy, sell, and invest, plain and simple. If the ethics of heroin pushers who participate in that market can be questioned, so can the ethics of all men in all markets.

But even if we concede the difference and take the ethics of the specific market itself out of the picture and credit the concept as neutral, markets are, at best, tools to be used, not an end in and of themselves. So it should surprise no one that some "businessmen" find ways to abuse those tools by using them to beat innocent people over the head when no one is looking closely enough at their "business" behavior to evaluate that behavior and hold them accountable for it.

That doesn't make business evil. Or markets. Or the right to invest. But human behavior is human behavior, and there is no arena or market that should be so hallowed that questioning the behavior of those using it, whatever their purported motives, should be considered blasphemy. Men can still be judged for actions taken as members of associations, not just as individuals. To believe otherwise would be to worship mob mentality, as I see it.

[rocklin]

Now where was I?

Not in Kansas any more, that's for sure.

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Wait, where's Toto?

Blessing the rains down in Africa?

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[rocklin]

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capitalistic investment must always have as its primary goal social benefit.

capital gain was their PRIMARY decision-making influence and their primary goal

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VVV, it seems to me that you are redefining the phrase "capital investment" into an altruistic term of art.

That is your choice.

But I must agree with jnk on this point: it's not a generally accepted definition, imho.

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Whether a cancer-fighting drug or a new type of personal electronic device the social benefit is the primary purpose.

And you know what is inside every investors head exactly how?

In my experience, when I've talked to a number of entrepreneurs, O&Os, and investors and asked them why they do what they do, I have heard a wide variety of reasons.

Their dad didn't love them enough. This will finally win his approval.

They were made fun of at school. Whose laughing now, losers?

A million entrepreneur-investors, a million reasons.

Sometimes it's social benefit, sometimes not.

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I thought that was a dirty and disingenuous attempt to besmirch market economies by comparing them to a heroin pusher.

Why?

Are they not subject to the same market forces?

How do they differ morally from the Liggett Group?

Unlike their product, titrating heroin isn't inherently deadly.


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But ceding to your metropolitan tastes

I have no such tastes, sir: I live in the city only to ravish the wenches of the isles of Columbia.

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BTW, my son was in Manhattan this morning for an interview. 43F and raining heavy. Better him than me.

The best of luck to him.

May I ask what job he is interviewing for?

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