OT: sort of - do you trust your doctor?

[BlackSpinner]

Researchers: Medical errors now third leading cause of death in United States

Their analysis, published in the BMJ on Tuesday, shows that "medical errors" in hospitals and other health care facilities are incredibly common and may now be the third leading cause of death in the United States -- claiming 251,000 lives every year, more than respiratory disease, accidents, stroke and Alzheimer's.

[Diamondminek]

I trust my gp (and most of the drs and nurses at my practice). I trusted my other half's gp before he moved, currently I love his consultant - we havent got to know the gp.
I would still always do my own research though - too much experience with drs from the personality lacking to the malpractice level.
However, that is a terrifying statistic - but I work with the elderly, in britain and they would never ever question the Dr - their word is law- so it's also not a surprise. And in a UK context, the nhs is screwed for resources, so I imagine our error rate will be increasing too.

[jnk...]

Do I trust inexact, made-up "statistics," designed to grab headlines? No, I do not.

" . . . may now be the third leading cause . . . "

Bolding and underlining mine.

And from the BMJ article:

. . . the assumptions made in extrapolating study data to the broader US population may limit the accuracy of our figure, the absence of national data highlights the need for systematic measurement of the problem. Comparing our estimate to CDC rankings suggests that medical error is the third most common cause of death in the US . . . -- http://www.bmj.com/content/353/bmj.i2139

Mercy me!

And they called themselves scientists?!

I assume and extrapolate that their absence of data makes me estimate that they are 100% NOT.

(I apologize for using up my yearly italics/bold/underline quota all in one post. )

[Janknitz]

My mother graduated from high school and became a medical secretary. She grew up in an era where doctors were gods. As a doctor's employee, it was "yes sir, no sir, whatever you say sir." As a patient it was similar--the doctor was omnipotent and she could lay the responsibility for all of her medical care in his hands. If he prescribed a pill or a treatment (other than lifestyle treatments like quitting smoking or losing weight ) she'd do it without question, with total trust in her doctor. Our lives were peppered with "Dr. So and So says this" or "Dr. So and So recommended that." And she took a boatload of medications, including tranquilizers that were so readily prescribed to women in the 60's, hormones, sleeping pills, diet pills, etc. Once in the 80's she was in university teaching hospital and a survey for a student's study asked what things she did to maintain her own health. "That's stupid," she replied. "That's my doctor's job."

That about sums it up. . .

I do trust my doctor, but in a very different way. First, I "shopped" for a doctor (or--more accurately--played "doctor roulette" at Kaiser) until I found one I could work with. I do not hang on my doctor's every word, and whatever she recommends I'm going to be looking up and studying and ultimately making my own decision about. I give her recommendations a lot of weight, but ultimately I decide for myself. What I trust her for is to listen to me, to share her knowledge on a topic with me, and I trust her to monitor me so that we can both evaluate MY decisions and tweak to optimize my health. I take a similar approach with my child's pediatrician.

I am always having to evaluate and sort out what is truly my doctor's recommendation and what is a Kaiser protocol that has everything to do with Kaiser expedience and not always with my own health needs. My doctor will be frank with me when I ask her if it's her belief or Kaiser's requirement. Often my needs and Kaiser's expedience intersect, but not always. I'm an informed consumer and a good self-advocate (and advocate for my daughter), so it works. It doesn't work so well for others who are not self-educated and don't advocate well (e.g. my husband). And I don't trust HIS doctor as far as I can throw him (he was one of the losers last time I played "doctor roulette").

So yes, I do trust my doctor, but in a very different way than my mom and many of her generation ever did.

[BlackSpinner]

LOL Because nobody keeps official stats it isn't happening? Even if it is half that it is still a problem.

[lilly747]

I trust my doctor to give me her best advice as she knows it. However I do my own research, reading, understandings, and I then make up my own mind as what to do. It;s my life and only I bare the results, good or bad, not my doctor.

[Goofproof]

I currently have Doctors, trust them, no! 3 I like all have made mistakes I have caught. They are human, mostly covering their backsides, not enough time to know their patients, many don't care. Not like the old days of house visits, and knowing your patient. Jim

[jnk...]

LOL Because nobody keeps official stats it isn't happening? Even if it is half that it is still a problem.

I don't mind the subject being considered. I don't even mind some anecdotal accounts being thrown in to spice it up. What I do mind is so-called professional journalists falling so hard for the dishonest trick of a person couching his personal estimates in pseudo-scientific terms, which seems to me to happen about 83.4 percent of the time, making it one of the top one problems in journalism today. 'Don't question my conclusions, because I am educated enough to make up statistics any time I want, if I'm studying it and consider myself an expert. So just print it.'

It isn't true just because it comes out of a doctor's mouth. But similarly, in my opinion, it is most likely not true if it is printed in one of the papers that fell for that "story" or if it is on any station that broadcasts that kind of ridiculous soundbite.

Unfortunately, that kind of hooey is one of the few ways to draw attention to a problem these days, so if the "study" draws some attention to the issue, maybe spreading pretend-science is the sort of thing in which the ends justify the means. I don't know.

All I can say is that hopefully most of my doctors aren't as clueless as those journalists are. I trust my doctor more than I trust the judgment of the editorial board of BMJ, that's for sure. I am sure it will be peer-reviewed soon, once someone is willing to stoop into the position of being peers of those particular "scientists."

[chunkyfrog]

The journalist may be "reaching"; but in this case,
especially if it gets people thinking and talking . . .
Bravo!

[jnk...]

The irony (yeah, I know it ain't real literary irony) is the act of members of one profession muddying their own profession's reputation in an attempt to attack members of another profession: 'Let me suggest that you can't trust physicians by PROVING that you can't trust pseudo-scientists like me!' Eeeeeee-HAH!!!

[Julie]

I saw that story earlier and thought the stats sounded horrendous, though it's important to keep in mind what was referred as 'medical errors' and who judged them - it was a bit simplistic.

"whatever she recommends I'm going to be looking up and studying and ultimately making my own decision about. I give her recommendations a lot of weight, but ultimately I decide for myself"

The above was said by a number of people here in similar ways... but as someone who worked for doctors for over 30 yrs, I think it's important to keep in mind that your doctor went to school for a long time and then interned and practiced for even longer. You might reference Google, etc. for answers, but what you need to keep in mind is that your doctor, when making a recommendation or judgment about something, is also calling on a whole lot more knowledge both about whatever is being discussed - including your particular history including lots of lab work, etc. - than a few internet hits that you, not scientists, interpret in your own ways. It's great to be able to learn by doing 'research' on the net, but remember, it ain't med school.

Of course doctors and hospitals make mistakes, many of them terrible and fatal, but I don't think a bash-the-doctors party should be held, not without taking a lot of other things into account, possibly the individual circumstances the doctors work under locally, the quality control level of oversight at hospitals, college marking systems for nurses, lab techs, etc.

Just playing devil's advocate a bit, not saying all doctors (or support staff) are blameless by a long shot.

[jnk...]

A few weeks ago I heard a doc at a hospital tell his patient: "Priority one is to get you out of this hospital as soon as possible before anything bad happens to you."

That guy, I trust.

[McSleepy]

You can't completely distrust them because you do need them, but, boy, you better do your homework, to the best of your ability, before agreeing to anything. As for my sleep doctor - what sleep doctor? I even had one who was not an ENT, pulmonologist, neurologist, etc. - he was exclusively a sleep doctor. Haven't seen him in years, and I'm pretty sure he's quite happy about it, too.
McSleepy

[lilly747]

Why pick on just the journalist, many doing research are not doing any better at getting the truth out.....might ask, Where's the funding coming from????

"Doctoring Data: How to sort out medical advice from medical nonsense.. " by Malcolm Kendrick

[Arlene1963]

Well I must admit that my trust in doctors diminished when my dad developed jaundice with no pain at the age of 72, and his doctor diagnosed him with hepatitis.

It wasn't until my dad had renal and liver failure and developed sepsis within the week of the onset of jaundice, that his doctor finally ran some blood tests to confirm the diagnosis.

My dad had a simple blocked bile duct from a gallstone.

It could have been fixed so easily and instead turned into a complete nightmare for our family.

My dad was in ICU for 3 weeks and was on dialysis. he managed to pull through. Luckily my dad is as strong as can be, having been an ultra marathon runner all is life, and he just doesn't quit.

This happened about 8 years ago, and I'm pleased to say that at 81 my dad is still running about 5kms per day and is completely healthy, no thanks to that doctor, who is now his ex-doctor.