Calling all front sleepers!

[Pugsy]

What finally happened is he stopped getting sympathy or help from anyone. People don't want to talk to him anymore and if he brings it up, people change the subject.

That's when I go out to the barn and find a good solid 2 X 4 and start swinging.

[MaxINTJ]

Well....I have used the Amara View...and I slept on my stomach with it successfully. It can be done. I am not the only person in the whole wide world who could do it.

I have been sleeping with it - going on 3 weeks now. Nothing is changing for the better regarding the mask. Yes. it doesn't have the large leaks, and I get breathing event free nights, but it wakes me up every single night because the mask or the hose, or both, get in the way.

You've limited yourself to extremely narrow options for whatever reasons you want to use and you have to make your choices based on those options.

If you are unwilling to try anything else...then base your choices on your current options because that's all there is available.

I have not limited myself - you make it sound like it's a choice I have made. The limit is in the choice of masks - I can have any - mask as long as it's a front mounted hose - hundreds to choose from but they're all the same.

The limits are based on what wakes me up and what doesn't. Even with the huge mouth leaks and dry mouth, I never woke up and ripped the mask off when using the Dreamwear - that only happens with the View. This, even though I sure seem to be having a disturbance free night, as far as breathing goes.

Does it suck? Hell yeah it sucks but wishing it didn't isn't going to change anything. Life sucks sometimes.
You have limited options but part of that is your own unwillingness to even try something else because of preconceived notions.
Either accept things for what they are or try to maybe be a little more open about expanding your options.

Unwillingness? Concerning what? All nasal masks will cause mouth leaks - that's a guarantee, so it rules them all out. All FFM masks are larger than the View and they all have a front mounted hose, so there would be no benefit to any of them. I'm not sure how that is unwillingness...

I've tried a chin strap and I've tried tape - neither works. How is that unwillingness?

OK, I refuse to buy a massage table or cut a hole in my "mattress", but that's because I know I do not stay still all night, and since I'm asleep, it's not really something I have control over.

Maybe I have something else causing me to wake up? That's why I want another sleep study. Although I have my doubts about them finding anything else since I didn't wake up with the nasal mask.

Congratulations to all of you <7% (whatever % of front sleepers that use a FFM) who have made it work, I want to be part of that group, but it's not working out that way.

[MaxINTJ]

Madalot: Nobody could say it better!
We play the cards we are dealt.
Or fold.

Yeah, CF. You got that right. I have a person in my life that developed Tinnitus earlier this year. I feel for him and do get that Tinnitus can be bad, but this man has made up his mind that Tinnitus is the WORST possible ailment and doctors are horrible because they can't give him a pill to fix it. He once said in front of me "Why is Tinnitus the ONLY thing they can't cure??" I mean, seriously? I need a wand to wipe my ass and you think you're the only one with troubles??

OK, now that is just silly. I have tinnitus - I'm a (slightly) disabled vet because of it and it never goes away. I have hearing aids to help override it during the day, but it's still always there. It is bad, and it's very annoying, and there is no reliable treatment for it, but it does not ruin every day like not getting good sleep does.

[Madalot]

Madalot: Nobody could say it better!
We play the cards we are dealt.
Or fold.

Yeah, CF. You got that right. I have a person in my life that developed Tinnitus earlier this year. I feel for him and do get that Tinnitus can be bad, but this man has made up his mind that Tinnitus is the WORST possible ailment and doctors are horrible because they can't give him a pill to fix it. He once said in front of me "Why is Tinnitus the ONLY thing they can't cure??" I mean, seriously? I need a wand to wipe my ass and you think you're the only one with troubles??

OK, now that is just silly. I have tinnitus - I'm a (slightly) disabled vet because of it and it never goes away. I have hearing aids to help override it during the day, but it's still always there. It is bad, and it's very annoying, and there is no reliable treatment for it, but it does not ruin every day like not getting good sleep does.

Actually, it's not silly at all. He claims he can't sleep for it. Sometimes he's up all night complaining about it. He's actually demanded that his wife call us in the middle of the night because HE can't sleep.

Max, honey - take a step back. I'm not trying to attack you. I'm trying to make you realize that you are defeating yourself in a lot of ways. I've been staying out of your threads, for the most part, because I know it sometimes takes a little bit of time. But you're going around in circles.

The other thread about contacting the manufacturers and telling them what you want/need - you've got every excuse in the book, including if they don't make it easier to contact them, you're not dealing with them. WTF is that? That one right there shows you are more worried about complaining than solving. I gave you the perfect path to take and you dismissed it summarily. You're NOT listening.

Take a step back and look at your attitude and behavior objectively. You seems like a halfway reasonable person. Take the time and ask yourself, honestly, if we're right and you could be doing more to help yourself. If you look and answer "no" you're not being honest with yourself.

[Pugsy]

I am done.
My patience level is below zero.
You of all people should understand that limitation.
No more attempts at reasoning or discussion.

[Goofproof]

Learn to speak Locust, that's as close as I'm going to get to 72 virgins. Jim

[Madalot]

That's why I want another sleep study. Although I have my doubts about them finding anything else since I didn't wake up with the nasal mask.

Max, here's another example of your defeatist attitude. You've already decided that another sleep study won't get you anything.

You've got to change your attitude and thinking. You're a lot like the guy with Tinnitus. You can see that HE's being unreasonable, yet I brought him up because you are very similar.

Change your attitude and thinking.

I just saw where Pugsy said she's done. If you've exasperated Pugsy, it's BAD.

[MaxINTJ]

Actually, it's not silly at all. He claims he can't sleep for it. Sometimes he's up all night complaining about it. He's actually demanded that his wife call us in the middle of the night because HE can't sleep.

Sleeping pills or a white noise generator - both do wonders. All the senses turn off or way down when sleeping.

Max, honey - take a step back. I'm not trying to attack you. I'm trying to make you realize that you are defeating yourself in a lot of ways. I've been staying out of your threads, for the most part, because I know it sometimes takes a little bit of time. But you're going around in circles.

Honestly, I have not felt attacked by most of the people here. The biggest attacker I just read, consider the source, and ignore. I KNOW most of you are trying to help.

As for going around in circles, yeah, that's how I feel my treatment is going. I can turn my pressure down lower so I can use a nasal mask but get a lot of breathing disturbances, or I can turn the pressure up so that I get my breathing treated but wake up from an uncomfortable mask. I feel like no matter what choice I make, something else goes wrong.

The other thread about contacting the manufacturers and telling them what you want/need - you've got every excuse in the book, including if they don't make it easier to contact them, you're not dealing with them. WTF is that? That one right there shows you are more worried about complaining than solving. I gave you the perfect path to take and you dismissed it summarily. You're NOT listening.

This particular issue, yes, I'm making a choice to not contact them. This is a peeve of mine about companies in this day and age. Phillips doesn't have anything other than a phone number. I may contact Resmed, but they don't make any masks with a top mounted hose so they are further from a solution. I am still mulling whether I want to invest any energy into contacting these people.

Take a step back and look at your attitude and behavior objectively. You seems like a halfway reasonable person. Take the time and ask yourself, honestly, if we're right and you could be doing more to help yourself. If you look and answer "no" you're not being honest with yourself.

I'm normally very reasonable, but I guess my lack of sleep is adversely affecting my attitude. At this point I really feel like I have hit a dead end. Maybe I can't see the forest for the burned trees.

[TASmart]

Max, If I have the energy to confront Dr x, you must have the energy to write a simple and succinct email? ( tongue in cheek joke). I know its tough for you, I spent 40 years looking for a good nights sleep.

[MaxINTJ]

That's why I want another sleep study. Although I have my doubts about them finding anything else since I didn't wake up with the nasal mask.

Max, here's another example of your defeatist attitude. You've already decided that another sleep study won't get you anything.

That is not my decision to make. The study is scheduled and I will go to it and sleep like I did for the other 2. Whether something is found or not is not up to me. Having low expectations results in no disappointments.

You've got to change your attitude and thinking. You're a lot like the guy with Tinnitus. You can see that HE's being unreasonable, yet I brought him up because you are very similar.

Maybe this raises a valid point. To me, he's being unreasonable. I have the same thing he has - I get by with it and it doesn't ruin my life, but it ruins his. To you all, I'm being unreasonable. You have a SDB problem like I do. You all use an xPAP machine like I do. To you it's no big deal, you are all being successfully treated. For me, it's into month 4 and I'm no closer to being able to catch up on sleep. I think I've had one decent night in all this time, and that doesn't give me any warm fuzzies.

I just saw where Pugsy said she's done. If you've exasperated Pugsy, it's BAD.

I just hope it's not just me. I know I'm pretty hopeless about this whole thing, but still...

[MaxINTJ]

Max, If I have the energy to confront Dr x, you must have the energy to write a simple and succinct email? ( tongue in cheek joke). I know its tough for you, I spent 40 years looking for a good nights sleep.

If they had email, I would have already fired one off. Phillips only has a phone number.

50 years ago that was acceptable.

[zoocrewphoto]

Madalot: Nobody could say it better!
We play the cards we are dealt.
Or fold.

Yeah, CF. You got that right. I have a person in my life that developed Tinnitus earlier this year. I feel for him and do get that Tinnitus can be bad, but this man has made up his mind that Tinnitus is the WORST possible ailment and doctors are horrible because they can't give him a pill to fix it. He once said in front of me "Why is Tinnitus the ONLY thing they can't cure??" I mean, seriously? I need a wand to wipe my ass and you think you're the only one with troubles??

The supplements which help some people? He complained they didn't work, but then come to find out he was taking 1/6 the daily dose. But he made up his mind they weren't working and taking more wouldn't help. Every possible therapy and help he has been given he has dismissed. He's always got a reason why HE can't do it or it won't work.

What finally happened is he stopped getting sympathy or help from anyone. People don't want to talk to him anymore and if he brings it up, people change the subject. He's living in his own little hell because he refuses to open his mind to possibilities and realize that HE has to adapt to the situation - not the other way around.

How sad. I consider myself pretty fortunate. I joke that I could use a new respiratory system. My airways are too narrow, so I have the trifecta of allergies, asthma, and sleep apnea. There are days when they really get me down. Just had a cold or bad allergies for the last 3 days that had e blowing my nose like crazy. It is finally calming down. But compared to other things I could have, this seems like very little. I can see. I can hear. I can do most of the things I want to do (within reason). I suspect I am dealing with some arthritis or bursitis (or both), but not very bad.

On rare occasions, I will have a bad health experience, and that gives me a reminder of how good things really are. For example, several years ago, I had sciatic pain so bad that I went to the ER, no improvement, later went to the doctor. I missed 2 weeks of work. I could barely hobble through the house, and had trouble just using the bathroom and wiping. Who knew it could hurt so much just to twist and wipe? I can't imagine having to deal with that kind of pain on a daily basis for years on end. Another example. My mom has had foot pain for many years. Always hurt to walk, Even hurt when just sitting. She even had surgery to remove neuromas, but they came back. She is currently doing a new laser treatment which has helped a lot. But for many years, I did not understand just how bad she hurt. One day, I walked to work, and suddenly both feet were hurting badly. It was horrible. I wondered if I was getting what my mom had. I took off my shoe and discovered that my insoles had holes in them. I replaced them, and the pain stopped. But that hour or two of intense pain of both feet gave me a taste of what my mom was suffering.

We all have issues we have to deal with. Some worse than others. Sleep apnea is treatable. The machines are much better than they used to be. The masks are much better than they used to be (with a LOT more choices). Yes, it can be a challenge to master. I fought with my mask for 6 weeks until I got smaller headgear (that my DME said did not exist) so that my mask would finally fit correctly. When I get down about something (health, finances, whatever), I try to remind myself of how good things really are. It could be so much worse, and am truly fortunate. Things aren't so bad when you tackle them with a good attitude.

[Madalot]

You've got to change your attitude and thinking. You're a lot like the guy with Tinnitus. You can see that HE's being unreasonable, yet I brought him up because you are very similar.

Maybe this raises a valid point. To me, he's being unreasonable. I have the same thing he has - I get by with it and it doesn't ruin my life, but it ruins his. To you all, I'm being unreasonable. You have a SDB problem like I do. You all use an xPAP machine like I do. To you it's no big deal, you are all being successfully treated. For me, it's into month 4 and I'm no closer to being able to catch up on sleep. I think I've had one decent night in all this time, and that doesn't give me any warm fuzzies.

Max, you get points for this one. At least you are trying to consider what I said. There's definitely hope for you. Just try to keep the Tinnitus example in mind. Remember how you reacted to what I said about him.

And just to put things in more perspective - keep in mind I don't use xpap. I went through a long, hard road to get where I am now. I use a Trilogy with AVAPS, which is definitely not something you get to easily (at least I didn't). And even when I got on it, it was a LONG road to tweaking the settings. LONG LONG LONG road....

[Krelvin]

...how does one front sleep successfully with 4-6" of plastic hanging off the front of their face and a hose that's always getting in the way?

For 11 years I have successfully slept on my stomach. I sleep flat on my stomach with a buckwheat husk pillow and my head is turned either left (most often) or right. The pillow ends just about where the mask starts on my face and almost touches the mattress. More often than not, my hand is there close to touching but not.

I move at night but not much. Most often I roll to onto my right side for short periods of time and then back. In past, doing so would cause leaks, but now with the cloth strap I use, that doesn't happen much any more and I am basically asleep when I do it.

I have a very successful sleep history with good 6-8 hours of sleep a night most of the time. The position is not related to poor night of sleep.