Getting treatment soon and I'm a bit scared (plus: anyone prefers Dreamstation over AirSense?)

[jim22]

Lucas, fear not! If you keep a positive attitude and work through the specific problems you may encounter getting started, CPAP therapy will work out great for you! Focus on what it will be like in 6 months or so when you are sleeping well and finding CPAP a comfort. We will be here to help.
Jim

[palerider]

waste

[lucas7bm]

Well, as far as I know, although the For Her algorithm is "gentle" with the pressure changes to avoid arousals, it also makes changes sooner than the regular version, something like 3 apneas is needed in the default algorithm against only 1 in the FH version. This would make the FH version "faster" in correcting the problem. Did I get it wrong?

That's not documented in the manual, where are you getting your allegations?

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... atures-tab

"One of the most innovative features of the AirSense™ 10 AutoSet for Her is the algorithm developed for women and the manner in which OSA affects them. A standard algorithm responds after 3 flow limited breaths and will move up by as much as 3 cmwp. The For Her algorithm responds after just 1 flow limited breath and will move up by as much as 2.5 cmwp. If needed the algorithm setting can be changed to the standard AutoSetAutoSet™ algorithm version."

It seems that hypopneas also immediately affects the pressure, since the events are described as "flow limited breaths".

[palerider]

of

[lucas7bm]

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... atures-tab

"One of the most innovative features of the AirSense™ 10 AutoSet for Her is the algorithm developed for women and the manner in which OSA affects them. A standard algorithm responds after 3 flow limited breaths and will move up by as much as 3 cmwp. The For Her algorithm responds after just 1 flow limited breath and will move up by as much as 2.5 cmwp. If needed the algorithm setting can be changed to the standard AutoSetAutoSet™ algorithm version."

It seems that hypopneas also immediately affects the pressure, since the events are described as "flow limited breaths".

I'll take manuals over marketing fluff every day, but you do what you want.

Additionally, as you saw in the video, the standard algorithm *did* respond on the first breathing event, and as well, if you'd spent any time looking at posted data here, you'd see the same.

I believe that whoever wrote that on the cpap.com page was in error, wouldn't be the first time.

Well, I was actually looking for an article that I saw once comparing the algorithms (remember, the AirSense 10 - specially the FH version - probably has a different algorithm comparing to the older S9 in the video) and showing this diference between them - the article was, as expected, more detailed and longer than a consumer manual - but all I've found was this quote from Pugsy*, mentioning it. I'll try to get the article later, after class.

*
viewtopic.php?p=947442#p947442

[palerider]

my

[lucas7bm]

Well, I was actually looking for an article that I saw once comparing the algorithms (remember, the AirSense 10 - specially the FH version - probably has a different algorithm comparing to the older S9 in the video) and showing this diference between them - the article was, as expected, more detailed and longer than a consumer manual - but all I've found was this quote from Pugsy*, mentioning it. I'll try to get the article later, after class.

*
viewtopic.php?p=947442#p947442

The Airsense10 AutoSet mode is the same as the S9 AutoSet mode, except for the detection of RERAs in later software releases.

Here's a whitepaper *from Resmed* about the autoset for her algorithm:
http://www.resmed.com/us/dam/documents/ ... orithm.pdf
After another quick browse, (I'd read it a while back), I didn't see anything in there to support your hypothesis that the For Her mode responds any faster to anything. If you spot it, please let me know.

Here's a report with summaries of algorithms: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... der-8-425/ (that's from this paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4629962/ )

Note, there's no difference in the response *rate* of either mode, simply in the response *amount*.

Thank you, you didn't find the article I was talking about, but another one with the same content (although you didn't read it). It's after Table 2 under "AutoCPAP":

"ResMed AutoSet evaluates flow every breath looking for apneas, snore, and flow limitation, but responds to flow limitation on a 3-breath average, has faster decreases in the absence of flow limitation and has a higher rate of pressure change to all responses (apnea, snore, and flow limitation) than AutoSet for Her.8,18

In comparison, ResMed AutoSet for Her evaluates the flow for every breath looking for apneas, snore, and flow limitation, and delivers a proportional increase in pressure depending on the degree of deviation of the event from normal, modulated by the current pressure setting and leak rates."

[palerider]

time

[lucas7bm]

Thank you, you didn't find the article I was talking about, but another one with the same content (although you didn't read it). It's after Table 2 under "AutoCPAP":

"ResMed AutoSet evaluates flow every breath looking for apneas, snore, and flow limitation, but responds to flow limitation on a 3-breath average, has faster decreases in the absence of flow limitation and has a higher rate of pressure change to all responses (apnea, snore, and flow limitation) than AutoSet for Her.8,18

In comparison, ResMed AutoSet for Her evaluates the flow for every breath looking for apneas, snore, and flow limitation, and delivers a proportional increase in pressure depending on the degree of deviation of the event from normal, modulated by the current pressure setting and leak rates."

Surprisingly, I did read that, no matter your allegations to the contrary.
You might remember that you said:

Similarly, the same way the regular AirSense 10 is "slower" than the For Her version?

and then :

Well, as far as I know, although the For Her algorithm is "gentle" with the pressure changes to avoid arousals, it also makes changes sooner than the regular version, something like 3 apneas is needed in the default algorithm against only 1 in the FH version. This would make the FH version "faster" in correcting the problem. Did I get it wrong?

Think what you want, it seems this has been reduced to quibbling over nitpicky details. Buy a respironics, they're cheaper and all of this will be academic.

Well, I just mentioned something that I've discovered and that I've read a few times on this forum, but then you started the passive-aggressive behavior mode with the "It's not in the manual, I don't believe your sources, thus your allegation is false.". When I found that your article said exactly what I was saying before, I couldn't help it - and I'm sorry. I usually don't care about these behaviors, but it's one of my pleasures to prove that someone with them is usually wrong - even when it's me.

An average of "three breaths" is not "three apneas".

Actually, there's no reason to believe it's not. Three limited breaths are basically apneas/hypopneas. One could imply from the ambiguous "but responds to flow limitation on a 3-breath average", however, that the default mode detects just one flow limitation but takes two more breaths (limited or not) to act - which, let's be honest, doesn't make any sense. Therefore, it seems that the default AirSense 10 Auto mode only responds to flow limited breaths after three of them (usually consecutive ones, although "3 breath average" is a little ambiguous - and the algorithm is probably more complex than that), while the For Her algorithm acts after every single flow limited breath. In any case, since the article is defining "single breath FL index" as a difference, the for her algorithm acts earlier than the default algorithm. This is pretty clear now.

About buying a Respironics, I've mentioned before that this decision is not up to me - unfortunately. And the Dreamstation is surprisingly more expensive here in Brazil - they are cheaper only if you buy them without the humidifier, but I don't believe it's a good deal. And, yeah, I know that these details are not interesting for everyone here - probably the reason why they're not on a user manual - but it may be useful for someone, someday. Sorry for the irony before, thanks for your help and have a good day!

[Bertha deBlues]

lucas7bm, you've clearly done a lot of research and I applaud you for that. Thank you for sharing what you have found, and best of luck to you with your treatment.

[Nick Danger]

Lucas, as you noted both the Respironics and Resmed machines are excellent. You'll be fine with either machine - it mostly depends on what you get used to. I've had wonderful results from CPAP - it gave me my life back. I've gotten to the point now that I have a hard time falling asleep if I'm NOT wearing the mask. The transition period for me was very difficult and extended (months rather than weeks), but now I'm in a very good place.

Take care,
Nick

[palerider]

but then you started the passive-aggressive behavior mode

*shrugs*, you can lead a horse to water...

[jennmary]

but then you started the passive-aggressive behavior mode

*shrugs*, you can lead a horse to water...

Frankly, Palerider was not the only person being agressive or passive agressive. Both of you did your share of it.

I dont think it was needed on either end.....but if you know so much then why are you asking for help Lucas? Palerider is not the lovey type, but I am betting that if you had not copped your own attitude of "I know better" while asking a question it might have gone better.

I dont personally know which machine is better. I do know that people tend to stick with what they know. Those of us who started with resmed are more likley to stick with resmed and more likely to recommend the resmed. I love my current resmed even more than I liked my last one. If given an option I will always choose the resmed. Not to mention the very small fact that I just like the way the airsense looks a whole lot better thaan the the dreamstation. I am sure those who started with respironics are more likely to recommend the machine they know and love as well.

Both are good, both will treat your sleep apnea. Dont ask questions you already know the answer to unless you are looking to argue.

[lucas7bm]

but then you started the passive-aggressive behavior mode

*shrugs*, you can lead a horse to water...

Frankly, Palerider was not the only person being agressive or passive agressive. Both of you did your share of it.

Well, I admit that "although you didn't read it" contained a bit of sarcasm, but it was the first sentence with anything like that and probably the only one. Before that I was always saying "Did I get it wrong?" or "As far as I know" and, of course, just asking questions, because I honestly didn't know that the Dreamstation is a bit "slower" in pressure changes.

I dont think it was needed on either end.....but if you know so much then why are you asking for help Lucas? Palerider is not the lovey type, but I am betting that if you had not copped your own attitude of "I know better" while asking a question it might have gone better. Dont ask questions you already know the answer to unless you are looking to argue.

I don't believe that behaviors like these are helpful nor healthy in a discussion, which is why I've already apologized for them. My post wasn't even about this specific difference in algorithms or about "AirSense X Dreamstation". My post was a vent, as I mentioned, and in the end of it I was hoping to meet someone who personally prefers the Dreamstation, just because of curiosity.

But don't accuse me of having an "I know better" attitude when it took me several posts to even start responding with a bit of irony - and also when my post wasn't even about it. There's one single sentence between round brackets that is a disservice to the discussion, I admit, but no more than that. You see, I'm apologizing for something that I've done because it's the hard way and the mature one, too. The easy and childish way would be just erase my posts, like a pigeon playing chess.

I dont personally know which machine is better. I do know that people tend to stick with what they know. Those of us who started with resmed are more likley to stick with resmed and more likely to recommend the resmed. I love my current resmed even more than I liked my last one. If given an option I will always choose the resmed. Not to mention the very small fact that I just like the way the airsense looks a whole lot better thaan the the dreamstation. I am sure those who started with respironics are more likely to recommend the machine they know and love as well.

Both are good, both will treat your sleep apnea.

Yes, I agree with you. I know that I'll be fine with any of them, I just need to be compliant to the treatment like you guys. Thank you for your comment, I'm sorry if anything bothered you and have a nice easter!

[lucas7bm]

waste

Oh, c'mon, you learned something, don't be ungrateful. I learned a lot from your posts on this forum, too. Let's be friends, shall we?

Good easter!