Is it possible?

[Barbee]

This morning, like many mornings, I woke up slowly and noticed my mouth was hanging open like the Grand Canyon. But this morning, unlike any other morning, I realized I was still breathing thru my nose.

I wear a hybrid mask which has nasal pillows and an oral mouth piece. Now Im wondering if I could wear just nasal pillows and a chin strap.

Is it possible to sleep with your mouth open but not have air escape thru your mouth?

[Julie]

Chinstraps can't keep your lips closed... but tape can and many use it. Do a forum 'search' to find out more about it.

[Barbee]

Chinstraps can't keep your lips closed... but tape can and many use it. Do a forum 'search' to find out more about it.

Thanks. I dont feel comfortable taping, as I cough quite a bit at night. I’m mainly thinking chinstrap to hold my gaping jaw up.
Do you think a person can have their mouth open without air escaping?

[wm_hess]

Yes it's quite possible. For years I've slept with a cough drop in the back of the mouth (even before CPAP) By doing that, I learned/trained my tongue to clamp the back of the throat closed.

I've been happy with my full face mask these past 8 years or so, but I decided to try a nasal mask at the start of the year. I wore the mask for about a week, and my ahi was consistently around .5 which is slightly higher than my full face mask (.3). I did not use a chin strap or tape and didn't really notice much leakage. I was not comfortable though, and went back to a full face mask.

Everybody's different though, so what works for me may very well NOT work for you.

Good luck!

-Bill

[ChicagoGranny]

Is it possible to sleep with your mouth open but not have air escape thru your mouth?

Possible, but not likely. Experiment with a nasal pillow mask. Practice holding the tip of your tongue on the roof of your mouth.

[Pugsy]

Yes, it is possible.

I can talk, yawn, open my mouth and stick my tongue out.....with mask and machine on....all without any air even entering my mouth much less escaping my mouth. Has nothing to do with tongue placement either. It's a reflex action that I can't describe.
So it can be done.

[ChicagoGranny]

I can talk, yawn, open my mouth and stick my tongue out.....with mask and machine on....all without any air even entering my mouth much less escaping my mouth.

You must have a very small throat. Pugsy, I don't remember which CPAP pressures you use. Your soft palate and tongue have to be touching, actually sealed, to keep the pressure from escaping.

[Barbee]

A few other things I noticed were that the tip of my tongue was dry. Not uncomfortable dry but it was noticeable. Air drying out my tongue from my mouth being open? Also my jaw ached from hanging wide open. I think that may have been what woke me up. Thats why Im thinking a chin strap might feel good.
The fired DME sent me a Dreamwear Nasal mask the last time. I think I will try that out tonight and see what happens.

[Pugsy]

I can talk, yawn, open my mouth and stick my tongue out.....with mask and machine on....all without any air even entering my mouth much less escaping my mouth.

You must have a very small throat. Pugsy, I don't remember which CPAP pressures you use. Your soft palate and tongue have to be touching, actually sealed, to keep the pressure from escaping.

No they don't have to be touching.
And I am not the only one who can do it.

I can do it no matter what pressures I use...heck, I did it while awake and testing the Bleep seal with my BiPap at 25 IPAP and 18 EPAP.
My normal pressure....min 7 with EPR of 3 and it can go to 20 but averages 9 or 10 ish.

There is a reflex valve thing that keeps air out of the mouth. I can't explain how I do it but I am not the only one.
Maybe that valve is why when we blow up a balloon we don't have air go out our nose at the same time.

[ChicagoGranny]

There is a reflex valve thing that keeps air out of the mouth. I can't explain how I do it but I am not the only one.
Maybe that valve is why when we blow up a balloon we don't have air go out our nose at the same time.

That "reflex valve" is described here:

The air doesn't come out of your nose (when blowing up a balloon) because you're instinctively separating your nose from your mouth when you exhale, using your soft palate.

https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/sh ... p?t=700191

(If you read that link, the guy who said it is the epiglottis is just wrong. The epiglottis is a flap in the throat that keeps food from entering the windpipe and the lungs. The epiglottis has to be open to allow air to come from the lungs when blowing up a balloon.)

When my mouth opens, there is a gap in the seal between my soft palate and tongue. Through practice and strategic fitting of my FFM, I've become good at keeping my mouth closed most of the night. But, I need my FFM for the times (usually near the end of the night) when my mouth opens.

[Pugsy]

There is a reflex valve thing that keeps air out of the mouth. I can't explain how I do it but I am not the only one.
Maybe that valve is why when we blow up a balloon we don't have air go out our nose at the same time.

That "reflex valve" is described here:

The air doesn't come out of your nose (when blowing up a balloon) because you're instinctively separating your nose from your mouth when you exhale, using your soft palate.

https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/sh ... p?t=700191

(If you read that link, the guy who said it is the epiglottis is just wrong. The epiglottis is a flap in the throat that keeps food from entering the windpipe and the lungs. The epiglottis has to be open to allow air to come from the lungs when blowing up a balloon.)

When my mouth opens, there is a gap in the seal between my soft palate and tongue. Through practice and strategic fitting of my FFM, I've become good at keeping my mouth closed most of the night. But, I need my FFM for the times (usually near the end of the night) when my mouth opens.

Yes, I have seen the video and know where the epiglottis is and it isn't what I was talking about.

If I can ever figure out how to put it into words and charge for it....a new truck for me at a modest 5 bucks for the hint.

I am so adept at separating the oral cavity from the airway that I have to make a concerted effort to open the airway to experience air entering my mouth. I have to work at it...and I know that I will get no sympathy from those that don't have a clue what I am talking about.
I can talk quite normally with mask and machine on and zero air enters my mouth. Nothing is blocked physically.....I can talk normally and breathe normally through my nose.

[palerider]

Is it possible to sleep with your mouth open but not have air escape thru your mouth?

Yes.

Some people, maybe all people with practice, (I'm not sure) can put on a nasal mask, open their mouth, stick out their tongue, and not have any air escape, breathing through their nose. or they can 'flip the switch' in the back of their throat, and breathe through their mouth, cutting off their nasal cavity, blocking the flow of air from the cpap. ... or let the air rush in their nose and out of their mouth.

[Zomby Woof]

If I can ever figure out how to put it into words and charge for it....a new truck for me at a modest 5 bucks for the hint.

I am so adept at separating the oral cavity from the airway that I have to make a concerted effort to open the airway to experience air entering my mouth. I have to work at it...and I know that I will get no sympathy from those that don't have a clue what I am talking about.
I can talk quite normally with mask and machine on and zero air enters my mouth. Nothing is blocked physically.....I can talk normally and breathe normally through my nose.

I too can 'separate the oral cavity' and maintain a seal with my mouth open and while wearing a nasal mask. This can be maintained for fairly long periods of time. All night? No, not reliably yet. Unfortunately more practice seems needed for that.

BUT, I can also do the reverse!
I just started trialing an Oracle 452 Oral Mask, and, quickly and very easily maintained a nasal cavity seal without nose clips

My Large Leak Rate is 0.0 for full nights, and, has persisted at this low level for over two weeks now.

Sorry Pugsy! In this respect, you aren't entirely unique

[RogerSC]

I know that I don't always sleep with my mouth closed, yet don't show mouth leaks in my sleep data. The leaks that I get these days are more related to my asymmetric nostrils. The "tip of my tongue on the roof of my mouth" trick works for me, which is how I position my tongue any time that I think about it. Like keeping my teeth apart, something that I consciously think about since I had pain from my teeth from clenching during sleep. This doesn't work for everyone, but it's been working for me for years, and I hope continues to work. And my teeth are no longer sensitive, as well. Generally the last thing that I think about at night before I fall asleep *smile*.

Anyways, worth a try. You'll find out pretty quick if this works for you or not when you look at your sleep data. And, yes, I do have a narrow airway, inherited from my father, which is why I'm on cpap in the first place *smile*.

[Pugsy]

Sorry Pugsy! In this respect, you aren't entirely unique

I am glad that am not unique in this respect which is why I always say that I am not alone in my ability in this regard.
No one would believe me if I was the only one claiming to do it....heck, it's hard enough now to get people to believe me.

I just wish I could put it into words....or you could put it into words or someone could put it into words...what we do to do what we do.

And yes...I suspect that when asleep I don't always get it done but I have more nights with 0.0 leaks than I do with leaks of any consequence and none ever wake me up so I don't really give a hoot.

You are one up on me...I have never tried the Oracle and never want to. If I can't use my nose to breathe I can't sleep.
So trying the Oracle doesn't interest me even one little teeny tiny bit.