Sudden mouth issues - trying F30 mask

[tsduke]

After nearly 6 month of using a nasal mask I found myself with multiple periods of opening my mouth during the night for most of January. So bad the noise keptwaking my wife up. I had finally become used to using the ASV and feeling better during the day then almost overnight I'm a mouth breather. I went from almost entirely 0-1 AHI with a lot of .1 or .2 to 1-3 with tons of leaks and wow did that affect my quality of sleep thus fatigue started to return. Chin straps are not for me so I ordered a ResMed AirFit F20 and after the first night of use I'm back to .1 AHI. At first the full face isn't really comfortable and left a major spot across the bridge of my nose. Hopefully I can make it more comfortable without leaking.

Anyway a coulple questions on this.

How do doctors keeping telling us if your under 5 AHI all is good? Heck my sleep doc seems thrilled and good with < 10. When I followed the adice of those on this forum to try an ASV I finally brought AHI under 1 it made a huge difference in my quality of life after a relatively short amount of time and once I got used to the pressure spikes I started sleeping through them. Apparently my body senses a big difference between < 1 and > 1 or especially > 2.

If I can't make the Airfit F20 comfortable I was considering one of the F30 models. Do they sit on the nose similar to how a dreamwear nasal mask would?

[Pugsy]

The "official" line in the sand for meeting diagnostic criteria (in the US) for earning the OSA diagnosis is at least 5 per hour average.
So docs tend to think it is good enough to be below the criteria level but they don't understand that there are other factors that impact how we feel besides just the numbers. If you notice the medical profession defaults to a lot of "numbers based" lines in the sand and they have sort of forgotten to factor in overall symptoms or feelings. They look at numbers and don't look any further.....laziness in my book.

Yes...the F30 masks seem to fit around the nose similar to how the DreamWear FFM fit around the nose.
Nothing up on the bridge of the nose area.

[Dog Slobber]

How do doctors keeping telling us if your under 5 AHI all is good? Heck my sleep doc seems thrilled and good with < 10. When I followed the adice of those on this forum to try an ASV I finally brought AHI under 1 it made a huge difference in my quality of life after a relatively short amount of time and once I got used to the pressure spikes I started sleeping through them. Apparently my body senses a big difference between < 1 and > 1 or especially > 2.

The under 5 AHI and your treated mantra is generally not supported here.

I'm trying to remember anybody here who agrees with it. Almost everyone who creates a therapy thread and follows the advice given, ends up with an AHI well under 5. Most of the regulars here have target AHI well below that.

[Pugsy]

Almost everyone who creates a therapy thread and follows the advice given, ends up with an AHI well under 5. Most of the regulars here have target AHI well below that.

We target lower because lower means less chance of sleep disruption from airway issues. We hope that fewer airway issues translates into better quality sleep and thus better chance of feeling good during the day.
Of course it's not always that simple but it's a start anyway.
AHI alone doesn't always dictate how we feel though...I have had 0.0 AHI nights and feel like total crap the next day...and my best ever day where I was super woman in terms of how I felt followed a 10.3 AHI night. Go figure that one.
There's so much more to feeling the good numbers besides getting them and unfortunately most doctors can't see past the numbers thing.

[tsduke]

Well that thinking by the doc was one of the main drivers for listening to you internet cpap docs. I keep seeing palerider's statement of "5 AHI is 12 sleep interuptions an hour" or something similar. I just couldn't rationalize "your average is under 10 so you are good" thinking. I know low AHI isn't everything, but targeting as low as possible seems logical. If we can average low AHI and still have issues then we can try and focus on other health or diet issues. Lower AHI hasn't meant everyday is great, but I have a lot of good days every week where I had none before.

My sleep doc no intention on trying to get it lower even though I insisted it was necessary to try in an attempt to acheive a better quality of life. Only thing I like about him is he had no issue with me taking ownership of my treatment and wrote me a script for the ASV when I requested so I could purchase outside private sale if necessary.

[babydinosnoreless]

My sleep doc no intention on trying to get it lower even though I insisted it was necessary to try in an attempt to acheive a better quality of life. Only thing I like about him is he had no issue with me taking ownership of my treatment and wrote me a script for the ASV when I requested so I could purchase outside private sale if necessary.

If your not going to help get out of my way and just write me the prescription so I can do it. Lol. Thats how I feel about my sleep doc too.

[zonker]

My sleep doc no intention on trying to get it lower even though I insisted it was necessary to try in an attempt to acheive a better quality of life. Only thing I like about him is he had no issue with me taking ownership of my treatment and wrote me a script for the ASV when I requested so I could purchase outside private sale if necessary.

If your not going to help get out of my way and just write me the prescription so I can do it. Lol. Thats how I feel about my sleep doc too.

lead, follow or get the hell out of the way!

attributed to george s. patton

but there is some doubt there.

[nicholasjh1]

Also I thought I had mouth breating issues, but it turned out to be mouth leak. either way it interrupts sleep and causes dry mouth. taping worked for me. Maybe I'll find a full face mask some day that fits my deep thin face correctly.

[tsduke]

Couple nights using this mask to address open mouth issues. Mask is effective for treatment, but dang the bridge of my nose is red and sore. I will keep trying to loosen the top straps to see if that helps, but can only do so much without leaks. The darn thing is making some plastic creaking so7nds too. Anything else I can try to alleviate the nose bridge soreness?

I may need to try the F30, but I’m concerned about sore nose there as Dreamware nasal left me sore. It looks like the design is a little different so maybe worth a shot.

[Pugsy]

The AirTouch F20 uses memory foam cushion and will be gentler on the nose bridge area.
So you could get just the AirTouch cushion and use it in the AirFit F20 frame. They are interchangeable.
Down side to the memory foam cushions is life of the cushion....probably at best 3 months with very gentle common sense care. The foam breaks down rather quickly when compared to the life of regular silicone but that memory foam sure is comfortable so for some people it's worth it. Insurance will pay for a new cushion once a month anyway.

If I was going to have to use a full face mask though....it would be one of the ones that doesn't cover the nasal bridge area.
We used to just have 2 choices in those types but now we have more choices so things are at least better in the choice department.

[tsduke]

I didn’t try the F20 first because of the shorter life. In a “normal” year where I don’t have other health expenses I will pay full price for the masks all year because of my deductible. I won’t rule out trying it if other things don’t work though. I wanted to go there first but the frugal part of me opted otherwise.

[Pugsy]

Don't blame you at all for taking the frugal way. I would do the same if I had a high deductible and the memory foam trial would be way down on the list of masks to try for that reason.

I hate anything on the bridge of my nose...just hate it and find even the least little pressure causes nasal congestion. I won't even do a nasal cushion mask for that reason. That's why I have stuck with nasal pillows all these years.
Anyway...if I just had to use a full face mask for some reason it would be one of those that don't touch the bridge of the nose are.
I have tried the DreamWear full face mask and I suppose I could use it if I had to. I haven't really had a chance to try the ResMed F30 or the new F30i and since to real need...won't spend the money just to experiment. Most of my experiments happen when someone donates an unwanted mask ...they send it to me and I experiment a couple of nights and then I pass it on to someone who can use it.

[tsduke]

I’d try the F30i but the exhaust on that looks like it might blow air but my wife.

[Pugsy]

The air should be somewhat diffused so that even if it points at her she may not feel it unless she is super close.

Maybe you can go over the to F30i review thread and ask the guys who have got it just how far out the venting reaches.
viewtopic/t178282/NEW-ResMed-AirFit-F30 ... -mask.html

I’d try the F30i but the exhaust on that looks like it might blow air but my wife.

[gv280z]

The F20 was my starter mask, which I actually used (amazingly) for something like 8 or 9 months. It took me that long to wake up and realize that I should probably look into getting some other type of mask. I did briefly try the Airtouch and I thought it was going to be great, but they don't hold up for much longer than maybe two weeks, and I think I was still washing mine even though it was foam. F20 left a scar on the bridge of my nose from the sore caused by over tightening. Anyway, I eventually plowed through an Amara View, and then Dreamwear full and finally arrived at my forever mask in the F30.

I love this mask. It's comfortable and seals really well, and is quiet. I like the diffuser in the elbow, rather than the mask. I rarely have leak issues, even minor ones. And if I do, it's usually for one or two of several reasons: Needing a tiny bit of adjustment on strap tightness (seriously, I'm talking maybe 2 or 3 mm), my face is sweaty / Rain Out, or I need to shave. I don't envy your current position now because of the choice between the new F30I or the standard F30 with Tube Down config. The top of the head connection as weird as it sounds, actually works well on the Dreamwear, I'm sure it's just as good on the new F30I. Problem is people are still trying it out, not much of a baseline of info yet for comparison. IMO, the Tube Down / Hose Face connection of the F30 is not a knock, and not making me want to run to the F30I for rescue.

I sleep like a passed out drunk for 6 to 7.5 hours every night, wake up when wife gets out of bed and turns on lights, I roll over and go back to sleep, leaving mask on, all warm and cozy.

There's ONE major con to the standard F30 that I'm guessing doesn't exist on the F30I, and that is the standard headgear. The upper straps will rub against the backs of your ears and it's irritating enough to where you'll tighten the crown strap hoping to raise the strap up off your ears but then it's painful on top of your head. This drove me to figuring out the Amara View headgear is a direct swap onto the F30 frame and works great. Once that's done, you're Golden.

Good luck!