BiPAP as an abbreviation simply means bilevel

[Pugsy]

Crap....I just had a wonderful reply typed out and poof it went into oblivion before it showed up.

Pugsy! PR just said a dirty word as he bumped my beautiful precious thread!

Sigh.

Let me try to sum it up.

Yep, he said a dirty word and bumped your thread. You should hear what comes out of my mouth sometimes.
Bullshit is pale by comparison.
You started this thread. You knew exactly what you were doing and what the results would be...so like I said before.
You need to learn to duck and cover faster/better/more effectively.

Me....I am sitting here with Zonker munching on some popcorn laughing my ass off and hoping it doesn't land on my butt too much since I have a tendency to put too much butter on it.

[jnk...]

I admit PR's attempts to derail this thread are entertaining, but once a position is debunked it is best to accept it and move on.

[babydinosnoreless]

Crap....I just had a wonderful reply typed out and poof it went into oblivion before it showed up.

Pugsy! PR just said a dirty word as he bumped my beautiful precious thread!

Sigh.

Let me try to sum it up.

Yep, he said a dirty word and bumped your thread. You should hear what comes out of my mouth sometimes.
Bullshit is pale by comparison.
You started this thread. You knew exactly what you were doing and what the results would be...so like I said before.
You need to learn to duck and cover faster/better/more effectively.

Me....I am sitting here with Zonker munching on some popcorn laughing my ass off and hoping it doesn't land on my butt too much since I have a tendency to put too much butter on it.

Hey, I want some. You and zonker don't get to hog it all.
I'll bring the wine or should that be whine.

[Dog Slobber]

Can you believe in that list that ResMed has actually TMed "APAP"? So don't you let me catch you using it for some other brand, Mr. Anti-Professional Education!

As much as you want to equate ResMed's use of APAP with Philips Respironics' use of BiPAP, they are not the same.

That's the difference between Trademark (TM) and Registered Trademark ((R),®).

ResMed is stating a claim of trademark on APAP, PR possesses a registered trademark on BiPAP.

All Trademark (TM) is, is a claim of trademark, and has no legal standing. Anybody can make a trademark claim on any non-registered term. I'll make a claim right now.

APAP TM is a Trademark of Dog Slobber.

There, ResMed has no more claims of ownership or exclusive use than I do. This is also why the term APAP is commonly used by a lot of companies and branded on machines from different manufacturers.

Registered Trademark, as the name suggests, is registered with the USPTO and with it comes exclusive use and considerable legal protection.

Jnk, fascinating about Resmed holding the TM for apap! No one seems to have a problem with that term.

As explained above, ResMed does not hold a Trademark for APAP. Nobody has a problem with that term because ResMed simply doesn't have exclusive use and a deep association with APAP as PR does with BiPAP.

[jnk...]

Fortunately manufacturers' word games have zero effect on respected mainstream experts using either term in books and scientific articles.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/me ... y-pressure

The quotations provided in Merriam-Webster establishing generic usage of the term "BiPAP" include highly respected luminaries in the industry.

So do I listen to Slobber and Rider who have been fooled by the manufacturers, or do I listen to all the respected published experts?

Such a difficult choice!

[Dog Slobber]

Fortunately manufacturers' word games have zero effect on respected mainstream experts using either term in books and scientific articles.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/me ... y-pressure

The quotations provided in Merriam-Webster establishing generic usage of the term "BiPAP" include highly respected luminaries in the industry.

So do I listen to Slobber and Rider who have been fooled by the manufacturers, or do I listen to all the respected published experts?

Such a difficult choice!

How have I been fooled by the manufacturers?

You've been posting about ResMed and its trademark claims on APAP, comparing it to PR and its registered trademark on BiPAP.

My last post addressed that.

Everything I stated is exactly correct. Instead of moving the goal posts, perhaps point out where I'm incorrect?

• I can establish that BiPAP is a registered trademark, it exists in the uspto database.
• I can establish APAP is not a registered trademark, it doesn't exist in the uspto database.
• I can provide authoritative descriptions of Trademark and Registered Trademark that exactly align with what I posted.

[jnk...]

The goal post is the thread title.

In summary, the dictionary supports the thread title. Pugsy's statement agrees with it. Scientific literature agrees with it. Respected experts and researchers use the term that way.

As best I can tell, all English-speaking sane people know it is true if they bother to look it up instead of using their own preference as their source.

Two people seem to be having trouble with it and continue to argue the accepted and the obvious.

And always will. That's the beauty of public unmoderated forums that allow people to say whatever they want and to give false "corrections" to people trying to learn.

Good day to you, sir.

[Dog Slobber]

The goal post is the thread title.

Yes, no disputing that that is the main point of your claim.

But, you have made other claims to support your main position. I addressed that point and your response was to suggest that I should to be listened to.

In summary, the dictionary supports the thread title.

*A* dictionary supports your thread title. Many dictionaries don't support your position. It's not supported by Oxford, Cambridge, MacMillan, dictionary.com, etc.

Dictionary companies don't have the authority to genericize by simply creating a definition.

Pugsy's statement agrees with it.

As much as I adore Pugsy and respect her opinion as being pretty authoritative on PAP treatment, usage and many aspects associated with it. She hasn't made any claims regarding common BiPAP terminology being sufficiently common to genericize it. Your argumentum ab auctoritate doesn't carry much weight.

Scientific literature agrees with it. Respected experts and researchers use the term that way.

I, and nobody here, dispute that *some* respected experts and researchers use BiPAP synonymously with BiLevel. What I disagree with is that said usage is sufficient to genericize it, sharing knowledge about it is a problem, and doing so isn't mean, scaring off newbies and confusing.

As best I can tell, all English-speaking sane people know it is true if they bother to look it up instead of using their own preference as their source.

As previously stated:
You've found a single dictionary that supports your position, the majority don't.
Dictionary entries are not sufficient to genericise a word.

Two people seem to be having trouble with it and continue to argue the accepted and the obvious.

What is accepted and obvious?

Your position seems to be that BiPAP usage is common enough to warrant its genercising to dilute its trademark. My position is it's not. Finding a single dictionary entry, amongst many that do not, nor finding some respected authors amongst many that don't does not make it accepted nor obvious enough to support your position.

It's a matter of degree.

[Pugsy]

Actually I think that what I said was that while the term "bipap" has become sort of a generic term....I didn't agree with it.
I accept it but I don't necessarily agree with it and I don't/won't do it.
I prefer to continually use the technically correct terminology but I won't beat people up for using what I think is the incorrect terminology. To me it's not worth fighting over. I got more important things on my plate to fight over.

[jnk...]

There is manufacturers' usage (a business game no one should be forced to buy into), there is common usage (what Merriam-Webster has documented), and there is academic usage (to which I have supplied numerous links).

Academics use BiPAP to mean bilevel of any brand, a fact for which I have supplied numerous sources. Common usage is that BiPAP means bilevel of any brand, a fact for which I have supplied numerous sources. If still you wish to perpetuate confusion on this board by insisting on everyone here adopting manufacturers' usage, feel free to derail threads that way--I can't stop you.

But if I'm in a Subaru forum where someone asks, 'which is the better SUV, Forester or Outback,' I have a choice of addressing the actual question being asked or instead nitpicking over the fact that the Outback is considered by many to really be a wagon.

I think it is better to choose helpfulness over being usage police. Listen as people express ideas and ask questions using perfectly valid wording, I say. But you do what you want, Mr. Slobber. You answer to no one but you, and I am glad you feel free to question my statements as I welcome in my sig line, since my version of reality as I understand it to be fully supported by my links need not be accepted by everyone on the board. There are always outliers.

That said, if you now finally agree with the thread title, great. If you still refuse to, then, again, good day to you, sir. Believe what you want. Insist on what you want. Be as silly as you want and call it "education." I find it highly entertaining when people do that. Always have.

I remain

Sincerely entertained,

-jnk...

[ChicagoGranny]

The current model Outback is a crossover!

[zonker]

The current model Outback is a crossover!

it's a floor wax!

it's a dessert topping!

[jnk...]

The current model Outback is a crossover!

[jnk...]

To be clear, I am NOT asking anyone to adopt or approve of common usage or academic usage; I am only asking that we please stop trying to enforce manufacturers' usage when people come here to ask simple questions.

It is only a suggestion/request. I have no authority here. In fact, I'm still amazed I wasn't kicked off this board years ago. It probably would be better for everyone if I had been.

[zonker]

To be clear, I am NOT asking anyone to adopt or approve of common usage or academic usage; I am only asking that we please stop trying to enforce manufacturers' usage when people come here to ask simple questions.

It is only a suggestion/request. I have no authority here. In fact, I'm still amazed I wasn't kicked off this board years ago.

i'm TRYING, but pugsy won't listen to me.