Supplement lowering my AHI, but more fatigued

[Okaythen]

Hi all,

I’ll try this again, without the “microscopic screenshot,” but with some proper CPAPTalk required screenshots.

I’m currently taking a peptide that is supposed to help with “brain repair” and I know for a fact that it has helped lower my AHI on CPAP. I was averaging about a 3-4 AHI prior to taking it. Now it’s at under 1 typically. This one here I screenshotted, my AHI jumped up toward the end of my sleep period, as I had the mask on in the early morning hours and was sleeping off and on, and that’s what the machine tends to do when you’re awake with the mask on.

And yet, despite my wave flow patterns looking rounded and normalized, I’m waking up looking more tired under my eyes than the norm, as well as feeling more tired.

That tells me that I must be having more microarousals in my sleep.

Any thoughts on this?

[Miss Emerita]

I looked at some earlier threads, and this one caught my eye:

viewtopic/t184342/Low-AHI-feels-worse.html

Was this before you began to take the supplement? If so, the supplement doesn't seem relevant to the correlation you've noticed between having a lower AHI and and feeling worse.

As others have noted in previous threads, there are many reasons why people feel worse, including changes in contributing factors that we may not notice. That's why it's good to take an explicit inventory of potential problems, including room temperature, light, mattress, pillow, pets, sleep partners, diet, drink, etc.

While it's possible that micro-arousals are at the root of your unrefreshing sleep, that can be confirmed only via a sleep study. Have you considered getting another one?

In other threads, you have mentioned being diagnosed with ME/CFS. As you know, most people with this condition experience unrefreshing and disturbed sleep. So it may be difficult to tease apart the effects of the ME/CFS and the effects of other potential causes.

Finally, have you googled the supplement you're trying to see what its possible side-effects are? And just as a matter of curiosity, what exactly is the supplement?

[Okaythen]

Thanks for your feedback. I was diagnosed with ME/CFS, but it’s a nebulous diagnosis and there is no definitive way to prove that I have it or if it’s solely my UARS.

The change in AHI happened after I started the full-dose nasal peptide. Believe me, I’ve taken inventory of everything. You’ll have to take my word for it when I say the peptide, possibly due to its effect on my brain, changed my AHI.

I’ve had a million sleep tests and titrations. Lots of microarousals present, highly fragmented sleep, even while on CPAP, but of course using CPAP helps, just not enough; I’d be dead without it.

I’ve no interest in doing another PSG, simply for the fact that I’m not willing to sleep a night without CPAP, as my SDB is severe.

Sure, here is the peptide I’m taking:

https://pdlabsrx.com/pages/vasoactive-i ... -treatment

[Julie]

Have you looked at that link - no particular med. named. When did you get the chronic fatigue dx?

[Okaythen]

It’s called VIP nasal spray, just what the link says. It’s a peptide, but I called it a supplement to make things easier.

Diagnosed with CFS around 2017 based solely on the fact that I wasn’t benefitting fully from CPAP.

[Okaythen]

Okay, so it seems some patients react negatively to full-dose VIP. I used it at full dose for 8 days. So it messed with my brain, clearly. Crossing my fingers that it will pass and I’ll go back to my normal crappy sleep, which was a lot better than my current sleep as of the last 12 days.

[Julie]

Just looked up what VIP NS is and it sounds like one of those old fashioned tonics that claimed to cure everything on the planet... Wouldn't be my first choice of a med, but if it 'works' for you, enjoy . And an MD who dx's CFS based on Cpap not working should be shot at dawn. Maybe you need a new doctor?

[Okaythen]

I agree. I’ve seen so many doctors and have ruled out everything. My problems definitely are rooted in chronically fragmented sleep.

[Okaythen]

Here’s what it says it is.

[Miss Emerita]

To return to your original question, I think if your AHI stays around 2 or 3, then you should consider stopping the use of a supplement that makes you feel worse.

[Okaythen]

I did stop it 9 days ago. I’m trying to figure out what happened. It says that VIP is a naturally occurring hormone and that it’s a neurotransmitter and neuromodulator. When administered at a high dose intranasally, like with me, I was simply told that some people “react to it.” I was only on it for 8 days, and I stopped it 9 days ago, but my sleep is still the same as it was when I started it. Prior to starting it, my sleep was not as fragmented as it apparently is now and, like I said, without the very low, atypical (for me) AHI on the machine. Ugh.

[Miss Emerita]

I hope you’ll be feeling better soon.