OT: Happy Thanksgiving

[NightMonkey]

A letter in the Wall Street Journal

Aaron Belz ("How Calvinists Spread Thanksgiving Cheer," op-ed, Nov. 18) describes a Santa Monica, Calif., church distributing holiday food baskets. But the truth is, Wal-Mart and its counterparts spread far more holiday-food cheer than do churches and public-service groups.

Scholars estimate that the presence of Wal-Mart in a community reduces food prices somewhere between 10% and 15%. That's equivalent to shoppers receiving an additional 5.2 to 7.8 weeks of "free" food shopping. That Wal-Mart's customer base is skewed toward lower-income shoppers reinforces the beneficent consequences of its price effect.

Telling of the good that big-box retailers do for their customers doesn't pack the same "feel good" punch as Mr. Belz's account of a California church. Hey, the idea that one can do good while doing well in the marketplace has always been a tough sell.

Lest you think me a curmudgeon putting down church efforts, let me say that I contribute to my church's food and winter coat drives. And my church is part of the same denomination as the church Mr. Belz describes (Presbyterian Church in America). That I also believe that my local Wal-Mart does far more than my church to assist needy people often causes me to feel like the odd man out.

T. Norman Van Cott

Department of Economics

Ball State University

Muncie, Ind.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... an+cott%22

Happy Thanksgiving all you fellow CPAPers and don't forget to thank God for our market-based economy!

[Starlette]

Happy Thanksgiving to you too NightMonkey. Be safe in your travels tomorrow.

Starlette

[SleepingUgly]

Happy Thanksgiving to all of my friends at cpaptalk.com!! I am very grateful that I'm not going this alone and have you guys to support me on my cpap journey!

[DoriC]

Happy Thanksgiving to all my forum friends, I'm forever thankful!

SU, A special holiday hug to your "little guy"!

[moresleep]

The problem with Van Cott's analysis is that it doesn't go far enough. WalMart achieves its low prices by buying from the cheapest-labor sweatshops to be found in China and other places, where America's labor and environmental laws do not operate. Our retreat from sensible tariff barriers over the past several decades has made that possible. In the short term, it may mean more disposable income for American workers; but, in the long-term, the loss of jobs to China and other hellholes means lower wages here and more people out of work, with lower effective income. We're already seeing the effect of this shortsighted policy. It's a sad commentary that, in terms of affording a home and middle-class lifestyle, many Americans are worse off than were their parents and grandparents.

Otherwise, Happy Thanksgiving to All!

[ozze_dollar]

We dont have thanksgiving here in Australia but My wife and I are going to lunch with a group of friends so we may just pretend. Have a good one.

[Vader]

Happy Thanksgiving to ALL!

God Bless!!!

[Bons]

The United Church of Christ just collected 1.25 million food items and raised $222,000 in eleven days to fight hunger.

Hope everyone has a happy Thanksgiving. I'll be cheering on the Packers from my husband's hospital room. At least I hadn't planned on roasting a turkey!

[TalonNYC]

Happy Thanksgiving! This year I'm thankful for being able to actually sleep through the night, and for everyone on this forum who helped me get there!

[chunkyfrog]

A happy Thanksgiving to all.
So many are dealing with grief, homelessness, and so much hardship.
A heartfelt prayer of thanks, and another to send strength to those who need it.

[idamtnboy]

A letter in the Wall Street Journal

Scholars estimate that the presence of Wal-Mart in a community reduces food prices somewhere between 10% and 15%. That's equivalent to shoppers receiving an additional 5.2 to 7.8 weeks of "free" food shopping. That Wal-Mart's customer base is skewed toward lower-income shoppers reinforces the beneficent consequences of its price effect.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... an+cott%22

Ah, but the interesting aspect of the few weeks of "free" food shopping that lower income shoppers enjoy, is that it is made possible by that greatest of all anathemas for Republicans - income redistribution!

Research shows that in the long term upwards of 1.5 employees of locally owned businesses lose their job for every 1 Walmart employee. Walmart's presence has been shown to cause a drop of 7.5% in county-wide retail wages. Then there's this:

A recent internal Wal-Mart memo revealed, for example, that 46% of Wal-Mart workers’ children are uninsured or on Medicaid; this compares to 29% for large retail and 32% for all retailers.

http://www.epi.org/page/-/old/workingpapers/wp276.pdf

This page http://www.newrules.org/retail/key-stud ... x-retail#1 lists a whole series of studies discussing the impact of big box stores on local economies. It lists several studies that show three times as much money stays in the local economy when spent at a locally owned business vs. a national chain.

So, the benefits that a Walmart, or other big box store, brings to shoppers of a local community are paid for the lost wages and jobs of other low to middle income workers, and the taxes that everyone in the community pays. At the same time, the money that would have stayed in the local economy gets moved off to a corporate coffer in another state, or to foreign suppliers, and on into the pockets of investor moguls.

YES, LONG LIVE INCOME REDISTRIBUTION - as long as it's done the Republican way! Take from the middle class and give to the rich. Be sure to spill some on the poor so it all looks honorable!

P.S. Here's a list of some other web pages I looked at:
http://www.newrules.org/about-new-rules-project
http://www.choicesmagazine.org/2006-2/g ... 6-2-14.htm
http://www.jrap-journal.org/
http://www.jrap-journal.org/pastvolumes ... -irwin.pdf

[NightMonkey]

idamtnboy

I think those articles are written by people with an anti-WalMart agenda.

Traveling a lot with my business to both small towns and large cities I always take note of new WalMarts. Especially in small towns what you see is shortly after WalMart opens a Chinese restaurant opens on an adjacent lot. Then a fast food national chain. Then a franchise sit-down restaurant like Appleby's or Chili's. Then a bank branch. Then maybe a franchise auto supply store. Then some new local restaurants. These are jobs being added to the local economy.

The "truly local" businesses see their business grow. What sometimes closes down is a grocery store of a regional chain. I don't call those local businesses.

Why don't you link to one of the articles that shows grocery prices drop 10 to 15% in an area when WalMart opens? This means lower grocery prices for poor/middle/rich - all alike. 10 to 15% equates to 5.2 to 7.8 weeks of free food per year. This makes a huge difference for those with lower incomes!

If I accept the premise that "WalMart opens/local stores close", what does that mean? It means the local stores were more expensive or did not sell goods the customer wants. Are you saying we should keep WalMart out because we want to force consumers to pay higher prices and not get the selection of goods they want? That would be criminal. Consumers should be able to choose where they shop and what they buy. Anything less is repressive.

You complain about WalMart and benefits. What do you think local retailers do? They pay minimum wages and offer no benefits. This I know for a fact and do not have to look up any articles.

Maybe local retailers have trouble competing because their minimum-wage/no benefit employees prefer to work at Appleby's or a branch bank or even WalMart! When a new WalMart store opens and has a job application day people form a huge line to apply. I don't think WalMart has gone in their homes and forcibly made them line up for a job! I also don't think the local stores have closed and left those lining up unemployed when WalMart has yet to open.

Such nonsense to suggest that a business which has a huge selection of goods and lower prices - all things consumers want and voluntarily purchase - is a negative to a local community.

Besides, have people ever flocked to a local retailer and had such great fun as these people are having at WalMart? - http://www.twitvid.com/QM7T7

[NightMonkey]

Especially in small towns what you see is shortly after WalMart opens a Chinese restaurant opens on an adjacent lot. Then a fast food national chain. Then a franchise sit-down restaurant like Appleby's or Chili's. Then a bank branch. Then maybe a franchise auto supply store. Then some new local restaurants. These are jobs being added to the local economy.

Lest someone accuse me of plagiarism, this is not an original thought of mine. It was described this way in the NY Times or WSJ about two years ago - can't find the link now. My dad pointed it out to me and I began to observe it myself.

I have even started to ask my customers about the impact WalMart openings had in their town. Everyone of them describes the same scenario of economic activity increasing after a WalMart opening. It is well known by businessmen. But it completely eludes leftists in academia and government.