ups shopping

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Jack Burton
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ups shopping

Post by Jack Burton » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:06 pm

Did some ups shopping and thought I would compare.
Also would like you input into my guesstimates.
If you know better or actually have evidence I would like to update the sheet for increased accuracy.

The Kodiac price is estimated as it includes an optional charger, shipping and calculated exchange rate.
The Kodiac invertor efficienty is offical straight from pre-sales support who are very good to deal with.
The inverter efficiency for the Fntronics is 1 because its doesn't have one.

My Resmed S9 autoset uses ~23W without the humidifer at 20cm H2O so based on the estimates any one of the list devices would suffice.

link to table https://imgur.com/gip0kTM

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Goofproof
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Re: ups shopping

Post by Goofproof » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:15 pm

UPS's are poor to run XPAPS, Too costly for one big enough to run two days or more. 12 Volt XPAP's on batteries are the best option.

For computers they are fine, if you are there to shut down before power gets too low. Jim
Use data to optimize your xPAP treatment!

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Jack Burton
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Re: ups shopping

Post by Jack Burton » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:25 pm

A 100ah deep cycle agm battery is ~$250.00CAD.
For DC power bricks add ~$100.00CAD per.
I would need 2x bricks so the price isn't that far out of line.
Then I would need a battery charger.
Plus my wife would be dismayed by ugly 12 volt batteries in our bedroom.

Also most of the units on this list are pretty versatile.

That said I have and will further consider that option.

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CapnLoki
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Re: ups shopping

Post by CapnLoki » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:48 pm

Jack Burton wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:25 pm
A 100ah deep cycle agm battery is ~$250.00CAD.
For DC power bricks add ~$100.00CAD per.
I would need 2x bricks so the price isn't that far out of line.
Then I would need a battery charger.
Plus my wife would be dismayed by ugly 12 volt batteries in our bedroom.

Also most of the units on this list are pretty versatile.

That said I have and will further consider that option.
This seems like a lot a lot of money for no particular purpose. Why not get a good battery and then buy a pretty box to put it in. Then take the hundreds of dollars you saved and buy your wife a fancy gift. Or send it to me. I'm serious - I think my $10 battery box looks better than the Kodiak, and its probably a lot safer, too.

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Additional Comments: Pressure 9-20, average ~9.5; often use battery power while off-grid
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Choosing a Battery thread: http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1140 ... ttery.html

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Jack Burton
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Re: ups shopping

Post by Jack Burton » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:50 pm

CapnLoki wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:48 pm
This seems like a lot a lot of money for no particular purpose. Why not get a good battery and then buy a pretty box to put it in. Then take the hundreds of dollars you saved and buy your wife a fancy gift. Or send it to me. I'm serious - I think my $10 battery box looks better than the Kodiak, and its probably a lot safer, too.
AJC 12V 100Ah Sealed Lead Acid - AGM - VRLA Replacement Battery
https://batteryclerk.ca/collections/ajc ... la-battery
$241.19
STANLEY BC25BS 25 Amp Bench Battery Charger with 75 Amp Engine Start and Alternator Check
http://a.co/e4EElDV
$114.75
Nature Power 38304 Pure Sine Wave Inverter, 400-watt
http://a.co/37wnmU1
$267.01
Wiwir battery Cut Off Switch 12 – 48 V/1000 A Power Cut off switch for Marine Boat Caravan Car Vehicles
http://a.co/egM4aXU
$25.99
12V lead Acid Battery Fuel Gauge, 12V SLA Battery Meter Battery Tester For ATV,Quads and 4 Wheelers,Stages Power Meter Battery (12V SLA/AGM/GEL/VRLA) Lead Acid Battery Fuel Gauge)
http://a.co/7eDlTOs
$19.99
fuse
?
cables
?
box
?
running total = $668.93

I got bored and tired thinking about putting all that together.

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prodigyplace
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Re: ups shopping

Post by prodigyplace » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:56 pm

No Inverter needed! Just get the 12 volt adapter for the S9. I have the S10 one and it works well connected to the battery. It was designed for your system and would be more efficient than the inverter.

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/DC-Con ... hines.html

I am sure you can find it in Canada too.

Canadian link: https://www.amazon.ca/ResMed-S9-DC-Cord ... B004UBKNSY

I am using a 100 watt solar panel system to charge my 35 watt-hour AGM battery.

This battery should work fine. https://www.amazon.ca/Deep-Cycle-35Ah-S ... 01DOALLYQ/

This solar kit might work. https://www.amazon.ca/Renogy-Watts-Mono ... 00HR8YNK6/

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Jack Burton
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Re: ups shopping

Post by Jack Burton » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:11 pm

prodigyplace wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:56 pm
No Inverter needed! Just get the 12 volt adapter for the S9. I have the S10 one and it works well connected to the battery.

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/DC-Con ... hines.html

I am sure you can find it in Canada too.

I am using solar panels to charge my 35 watt-hour AGM battery.
You mean amp-hour?

I could do that but lose the flexibility of having an inverter.

AirSense 10 DC-DC Converter , 24V-90W $168.00
S9 DC-DC Converter , 24V-90W $127.00
2x NOCO GC018 12-volt Plug Socket with Eyelet Terminals $33.94
total=$328.94
inverter=$267.01

I'm starting to want to do this.
But I'm a software guy and should not ever touch hardware for the well being of all concerned.

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palerider
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Re: ups shopping

Post by palerider » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:18 pm

Jack Burton wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:50 pm
CapnLoki wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:48 pm
This seems like a lot a lot of money for no particular purpose. Why not get a good battery and then buy a pretty box to put it in. Then take the hundreds of dollars you saved and buy your wife a fancy gift. Or send it to me. I'm serious - I think my $10 battery box looks better than the Kodiak, and its probably a lot safer, too.
AJC 12V 100Ah Sealed Lead Acid - AGM - VRLA Replacement Battery
https://batteryclerk.ca/collections/ajc ... la-battery
$241.19
STANLEY BC25BS 25 Amp Bench Battery Charger with 75 Amp Engine Start and Alternator Check
http://a.co/e4EElDV
$114.75
Nature Power 38304 Pure Sine Wave Inverter, 400-watt
http://a.co/37wnmU1
$267.01
Wiwir battery Cut Off Switch 12 – 48 V/1000 A Power Cut off switch for Marine Boat Caravan Car Vehicles
http://a.co/egM4aXU
$25.99
12V lead Acid Battery Fuel Gauge, 12V SLA Battery Meter Battery Tester For ATV,Quads and 4 Wheelers,Stages Power Meter Battery (12V SLA/AGM/GEL/VRLA) Lead Acid Battery Fuel Gauge)
http://a.co/7eDlTOs
$19.99
fuse
?
cables
?
box
?
running total = $668.93

I got bored and tired thinking about putting all that together.
The battery and the power meter are the only things on that list that are even slightly reasonable, and the battery is iffy.

The inverter is a bad idea, the charger is overkill, the battery cutoff switch... are you building a boat?

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Jack Burton
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Re: ups shopping

Post by Jack Burton » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:20 pm

palerider wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:18 pm
Jack Burton wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:50 pm
CapnLoki wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:48 pm
This seems like a lot a lot of money for no particular purpose. Why not get a good battery and then buy a pretty box to put it in. Then take the hundreds of dollars you saved and buy your wife a fancy gift. Or send it to me. I'm serious - I think my $10 battery box looks better than the Kodiak, and its probably a lot safer, too.
AJC 12V 100Ah Sealed Lead Acid - AGM - VRLA Replacement Battery
https://batteryclerk.ca/collections/ajc ... la-battery
$241.19
STANLEY BC25BS 25 Amp Bench Battery Charger with 75 Amp Engine Start and Alternator Check
http://a.co/e4EElDV
$114.75
Nature Power 38304 Pure Sine Wave Inverter, 400-watt
http://a.co/37wnmU1
$267.01
Wiwir battery Cut Off Switch 12 – 48 V/1000 A Power Cut off switch for Marine Boat Caravan Car Vehicles
http://a.co/egM4aXU
$25.99
12V lead Acid Battery Fuel Gauge, 12V SLA Battery Meter Battery Tester For ATV,Quads and 4 Wheelers,Stages Power Meter Battery (12V SLA/AGM/GEL/VRLA) Lead Acid Battery Fuel Gauge)
http://a.co/7eDlTOs
$19.99
fuse
?
cables
?
box
?
running total = $668.93

I got bored and tired thinking about putting all that together.
The battery and the power meter are the only things on that list that are even slightly reasonable, and the battery is iffy.
Those are Canadian dollars.
1 Canadian Dollar equal 0.78 US Dollar.

I'm sure you can do better and please share.

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Jack Burton
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Re: ups shopping

Post by Jack Burton » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:31 pm

Q: How much capacity in % of an AGM deep cycle 12v battery can be used before the life is reduced to say less than 400 cycles?

Q: Same question for the lithium batteries?

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Jack Burton
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Re: ups shopping

Post by Jack Burton » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:09 pm


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CapnLoki
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Re: ups shopping

Post by CapnLoki » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:20 pm

Jack Burton wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:50 pm
CapnLoki wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:48 pm
This seems like a lot a lot of money for no particular purpose. Why not get a good battery and then buy a pretty box to put it in. Then take the hundreds of dollars you saved and buy your wife a fancy gift. Or send it to me. I'm serious - I think my $10 battery box looks better than the Kodiak, and its probably a lot safer, too.
AJC 12V 100Ah Sealed Lead Acid - AGM - VRLA Replacement Battery
https://batteryclerk.ca/collections/ajc ... la-battery
$241.19
STANLEY BC25BS 25 Amp Bench Battery Charger with 75 Amp Engine Start and Alternator Check
http://a.co/e4EElDV
$114.75
Nature Power 38304 Pure Sine Wave Inverter, 400-watt
http://a.co/37wnmU1
$267.01
Wiwir battery Cut Off Switch 12 – 48 V/1000 A Power Cut off switch for Marine Boat Caravan Car Vehicles
http://a.co/egM4aXU
$25.99
12V lead Acid Battery Fuel Gauge, 12V SLA Battery Meter Battery Tester For ATV,Quads and 4 Wheelers,Stages Power Meter Battery (12V SLA/AGM/GEL/VRLA) Lead Acid Battery Fuel Gauge)
http://a.co/7eDlTOs
$19.99
fuse
?
cables
?
box
?
running total = $668.93

I got bored and tired thinking about putting all that together.
When you go looking for ways to crank up the price, there's no limit to how much you can spend. Why not look for ways to save money? Do you need a "engine start" charger? You can certainly get a smaller one, and higher quality for less. Mine costs under $50, is very high quality, and came with most of the needed cables and fuses.

The sine wave inverter is a total waste of money for a cpap - get the 12/24 volt converter and you not only save over $100, but you'll use only half the power so you only need a battery half the size! Every inverter made claims 90% efficiency, but that is only at a specific load. When used at lower loads the efficiency always drops to 60% or less.

There is no purpose to the "cut off switch." The "fuel gauge" is useful, but not needed.

The total cost for my system, was about $130 US. It uses the same battery as the Yeti 400 - a U1 AGM. I figure about 25 amp-hours usable, or 300 WH, so its $0.44 US per WH. Details in in the thread listed in my signature.

If your budget allows, I have no problem spending large for a fancy package or a bit of status. But I would hate for other readers to think that this is necessary.

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Mask: Quattro™ Air Full Face Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Pressure 9-20, average ~9.5; often use battery power while off-grid
Hark, how hard he fetches breath . . .  Act II, Scene IV, King Henry IV Part I, William Shakespeare
Choosing a Battery thread: http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1140 ... ttery.html

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Jack Burton
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Re: ups shopping

Post by Jack Burton » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:58 pm

CapnLoki wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:20 pm
You can certainly get a smaller one, and higher quality for less.
Thanks, that is a good suggestion.
How quick can it charge the battery?
I would like to be able to get the battery from ~25% to ~90% in 6 hours.
CapnLoki wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:20 pm
The sine wave inverter is a total waste of money for a cpap - get the 12/24 volt converter and you not only save over $100, but you'll use only half the power so you only need a battery half the size!
This is for 2 cpap units and if I'm designing it I would like to spec for humidifier capability.
So 200AH is what I think I will use.
The goal is only to get 2 people 1 night of sleep.
The next morning I will charge the device from mains power or go to the next city with accommodations.
Quebec has a semi-isolated grid and is reachable in a day.
CapnLoki wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:20 pm
Every inverter made claims 90% efficiency, but that is only at a specific load. When used at lower loads the efficiency always drops to 60% or less.
Now that is good to know.
CapnLoki wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:20 pm
There is no purpose to the "cut off switch." The "fuel gauge" is useful, but not needed.
The idea of the cutoff switch was to avoid arcing if I ever had to replace the battery.
I think it would go like this battery->fuse->cutoff->guage->(inverter or lighter socket)->cpap machine.
I want the inverter for flexibility but It might not be in the cpap circuit.
CapnLoki wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:20 pm
The total cost for my system, was about $130 US. It uses the same battery as the Yeti 400 - a U1 AGM. I figure about 25 amp-hours usable, or 300 WH, so its $0.44 US per WH.
Thanks for the info.

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Re: ups shopping

Post by CapnLoki » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:06 pm

Jack Burton wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:31 pm
Q: How much capacity in % of an AGM deep cycle 12v battery can be used before the life is reduced to say less than 400 cycles?

Q: Same question for the lithium batteries?
400 cycles? Really? You must have terrible power - are you in a third world country?

_________________
Machine: DreamStation Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: Quattro™ Air Full Face Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Pressure 9-20, average ~9.5; often use battery power while off-grid
Hark, how hard he fetches breath . . .  Act II, Scene IV, King Henry IV Part I, William Shakespeare
Choosing a Battery thread: http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1140 ... ttery.html

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Re: ups shopping

Post by CapnLoki » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:08 pm

Jack Burton wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:09 pm
found this in my research https://www.resmed.com/us/dam/documents ... lo_eng.pdf
You'll note that document implies that inverter efficiency is 50%.

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Machine: DreamStation Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: Quattro™ Air Full Face Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Pressure 9-20, average ~9.5; often use battery power while off-grid
Hark, how hard he fetches breath . . .  Act II, Scene IV, King Henry IV Part I, William Shakespeare
Choosing a Battery thread: http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1140 ... ttery.html