It's Not Always Acid Reflux!

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
Not Acid Reflux
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:13 pm

It's Not Always Acid Reflux!

Post by Not Acid Reflux » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:41 pm

I have read and read and read all the comments from people desperate for help for sore throats with CPAP, only to be told repeatedly that it's acid reflux, it's not a real problem with the machine. Add more water, turn up the humidifier, heat the humidifier, clean your tubes, on and on and on the comments went.

I am here to say from my own personal experience that Yes, there Are people who do not tolerate the constant pressure of the CPAP, and No, it's Not always acid reflux. I have a Resmed Autoset w/humidifier & have been scrupulous about keeping it clean, I wash out the tubes with soap and soak them in vinegar. I also wash the humidifier. I am a singer, and my voice has been getting more and more harsh and gravelly. My throat has been getting worse, too, and all my friends ask if I'm coming down with something. Even the doctor caught the roughness in my voice, it got that noticeable. He, too, insisted it was acid reflux, but I know my body. I fought the doctors for 25+ years on another medical problem I have, and after constant belittling and mockery from the medical profession, finally got a diagnosis. I have a rare disease (1/100,000). So I know my body and I knew something was wrong with my voice. I also knew it was not acid reflux. So when the doctor realized I wasn't going to swallow the standard Acid Reflux line, he sent me to an Ear Nose & Throat doctor, telling me, "They have ways to tell if it's acid reflux." I could see him thinking, "If she won't believe me, she'll have to believe it when an objective doctor tells her."

I had my ENT appointment today, and No Signs Of Acid Reflux. It is Not acid reflux. Many, perhaps even most, people have acid reflux when they get a sore throat with CPAP, but there are always us "canaries in a coal mine," who do not react the same as the rest.

User avatar
Goofproof
Posts: 14322
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Central Indiana, USA

Re: It's Not Always Acid Reflux!

Post by Goofproof » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:27 pm

It's Not Always Acid Reflux! It's also mouthbreathing! It's not using a Full Face Mask! It's not doing XPAP treatment correctly. :roll: Jim
Use data to optimize your xPAP treatment:
how to see your data https://sleep.tnet.com/resources/sleepyhead
how to present your data https://sleep.tnet.com/resources/sleepyhead/shorganize
how to post your data https://sleep.tnet.com/reference/tips/imgur

SewTired
Posts: 1577
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:33 am
Location: Minneapolis area

Re: It's Not Always Acid Reflux!

Post by SewTired » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:09 pm

Hey, if you aren't responding to acid reflux meds, see a gastroenterologist and get checked out. If my neighbor did that, she would be alive today instead of dead from stomach cancer. Stomach cancer has the same symptoms as acid reflux.
Diabetes 2, RLS & bradycardia
Settings: range 8-12

User avatar
ChicagoGranny
Posts: 6982
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:43 pm

Re: It's Not Always Acid Reflux!

Post by ChicagoGranny » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:30 pm

Not Acid Reflux wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:41 pm
I have read and read and read all the comments from people desperate for help for sore throats with CPAP, only to be told repeatedly that it's acid reflux,
Where have you been reading?? I did a simple search of key words "sore throat" in the forum, and the first five posts that were returned do not mention reflux. They talk about mouth breathing and humidifier settings ---->

viewtopic/t109199/Newbie--Sore-Throat.html

viewtopic/t54148/sore-throat-every-morning.html

viewtopic/t74311/Sore-throat-for-9-months-Help.html

viewtopic/t51881/cant-get-rid-of-sore-throat.html

viewtopic/t90521/Sore-throat-help.html

Janknitz
Posts: 6807
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:05 pm

Re: It's Not Always Acid Reflux!

Post by Janknitz » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:37 pm

So if not acid reflux (or dryness from mouth breathing) what is your body telling you what it is?

Did the GI doctor have any suggestions?
What you need to know before you meet your DME http://tinyurl.com/2arffqx
Taming the Mirage Quattro http://tinyurl.com/2ft3lh8
Swift FX Fitting Guide http://tinyurl.com/22ur9ts
Don't Pay that Upcharge! http://tinyurl.com/2ck48rm

Not Acid Reflux
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:13 pm

Re: It's Not Always Acid Reflux!

Post by Not Acid Reflux » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:07 am

My main problem was not sore throat, it was hoarseness, which did not start until the CPAP. I have been diagnosed with nodules on my vocal cords. Nodules are typically caused by overuse or trauma of the vocal cords. (CPAP air pressure?) If anyone else is worried about their hoarseness, from my own personal experience, I strongly recommend they see an Ear Nose and Throat doctor.

User avatar
Mikebear
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:58 pm
Location: Mid-Michigan

Re: It's Not Always Acid Reflux!

Post by Mikebear » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:41 am

Not Acid Reflux wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:41 pm
I have read and read and read all the comments from people desperate for help for sore throats with CPAP, only to be told repeatedly that it's acid reflux, it's not a real problem with the machine. Add more water, turn up the humidifier, heat the humidifier, clean your tubes, on and on and on the comments went.

I am here to say from my own personal experience that Yes, there Are people who do not tolerate the constant pressure of the CPAP, and No, it's Not always acid reflux. I have a Resmed Autoset w/humidifier & have been scrupulous about keeping it clean, I wash out the tubes with soap and soak them in vinegar. I also wash the humidifier. I am a singer, and my voice has been getting more and more harsh and gravelly. My throat has been getting worse, too, and all my friends ask if I'm coming down with something. Even the doctor caught the roughness in my voice, it got that noticeable. He, too, insisted it was acid reflux, but I know my body. I fought the doctors for 25+ years on another medical problem I have, and after constant belittling and mockery from the medical profession, finally got a diagnosis. I have a rare disease (1/100,000). So I know my body and I knew something was wrong with my voice. I also knew it was not acid reflux. So when the doctor realized I wasn't going to swallow the standard Acid Reflux line, he sent me to an Ear Nose & Throat doctor, telling me, "They have ways to tell if it's acid reflux." I could see him thinking, "If she won't believe me, she'll have to believe it when an objective doctor tells her."

I had my ENT appointment today, and No Signs Of Acid Reflux. It is Not acid reflux. Many, perhaps even most, people have acid reflux when they get a sore throat with CPAP, but there are always us "canaries in a coal mine," who do not react the same as the rest.
Not Acid Reflux wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:07 am
My main problem was not sore throat, it was hoarseness, which did not start until the CPAP. I have been diagnosed with nodules on my vocal cords. Nodules are typically caused by overuse or trauma of the vocal cords. (CPAP air pressure?) If anyone else is worried about their hoarseness, from my own personal experience, I strongly recommend they see an Ear Nose and Throat doctor.
Ahem, you are a singer for a very long time, and you have nodules on your vocal cords due to "overuse or trauma".

Do you think that perhaps there's a correlation in those facts beyond using a cpap? I hear about singers that have those issues all the time, this is the first time I heard one blame cpap therapy for it when the obvious answer is that your singing is causing it. Maybe you need rest or something else. I'd suggest that WAY before suggesting blaming cpap, and/or quitting therapy.

_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Pressures = 10 CmH20 - 13 CmH20 EPR 2. COPD, Asthma, 30lbs overweight. Airsense 10 AutoSet

User avatar
ChicagoGranny
Posts: 6982
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:43 pm

Re: It's Not Always Acid Reflux!

Post by ChicagoGranny » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:05 pm

Not Acid Reflux wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:07 am
My main problem was not sore throat, it was hoarseness
Your story is a moving target --->

Not Acid Reflux wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:41 pm
I have read and read and read all the comments from people desperate for help for sore throats with CPAP

Not Acid Reflux
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:13 pm

Re: It's Not Always Acid Reflux!

Post by Not Acid Reflux » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:14 pm

I am not a professional singer. I should have said I have a good voice. It reminds me of the old ABBA song that goes, "but I have a talent, a wonderful thing, cause everyone listens when I start to sing." I love singing and when I do heads turn. I can't go anywhere and sing, even as part of a large gathering, without having total strangers come up afterwards and compliment me. No, the damage didn't happen when I sang, because I don't do it professionally. I was trained in my younger years to sing opera, so I know I am a concert contralto with nearly 4 octaves. And as far as the sore throat, it began burning all the way down into my lungs, but the hoarseness came first, not the sore throat. I did mention the hoarseness and the gravelly sound. I have checked under hoarseness in addition to sore throat and repeatedly they said it was acid reflux. I made my comment to support the others I read who were having the same problem with hoarseness in their voice, so they know they are not alone.

User avatar
chunkyfrog
Posts: 24763
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Nebraska--what does not kill us, makes us stronger

Re: It's Not Always Acid Reflux!

Post by chunkyfrog » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:07 pm

I used to have a remarkable voice--in a nice way.
Due to age, it is still remarkable--
my son said I sounded like Shel Silverstein--but I was recovering from bronchitis.

_________________
Machine: AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Backup: Devillbiss Intellipap Autoadjust
I once was lost in apnea; but now I'm found--breathing easily all night long.
Medicare suppliers:
https://www.medicare.gov/supplierdirectory/search.html

emery
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:13 am

Re: It's Not Always Acid Reflux!

Post by emery » Sun May 27, 2018 10:00 am

Aerophagia can give similar problems as acid reflux without the normal wholesale evidence. A PAP machine that forces air into the stomach during exhalation also holds that esophageal passage open long enough for some of the acidic vapors and small particles to be carried up into the throat as the pressure is released. Done repeatedly through the night this can be a lot of nebulized acid vapors that will coat the linings of the throat and mouth. It can also leave acidic residues on the teeth which, over time, can accelerate tooth decay.

The only solution to date is a BiPap machine which will lower the exhalation pressure enough to prevent air being forced into the stomach past the esophageal sphincter and building up a pressure in the stomach. https://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorde ... -stomach#1 . Many long time CPAP users never notice that this is happening and over time, may be getting worse with age. It is one more example of why the simple CPAP machine may not be a sufficiently well enough targeted solution to Obstructive sleep apnea treatment.

In a case like this it still could be acid reflux but not the typical kind.

User avatar
LSAT
Posts: 9849
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:11 am
Location: SE Wisconsin

Re: It's Not Always Acid Reflux!

Post by LSAT » Sun May 27, 2018 11:06 am

Hopefully, most air will go in and out of the lungs and not the stomach.

_________________
Machine: S9 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine
Mask: Mirage Quattro™ Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: S9 Autoset...APAP Settings 12-20

User avatar
ChicagoGranny
Posts: 6982
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:43 pm

Re: It's Not Always Acid Reflux!

Post by ChicagoGranny » Sun May 27, 2018 11:52 am

emery wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 10:00 am
A PAP machine that forces air into the stomach during exhalation also holds that esophageal passage open long enough for some of the acidic vapors and small particles to be carried up into the throat as the pressure is released. Done repeatedly through the night this can be a lot of nebulized acid vapors that will coat the linings of the throat and mouth. It can also leave acidic residues on the teeth which, over time, can accelerate tooth decay.
There are some studies to add evidence to your comment about nebulized acid vapors. Here is one -
Endogenous tooth erosion in the absence of GERD symptoms (silent refluxers) could be caused by acidic droplets/vapors and gases.
Study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3238367/

User avatar
LSAT
Posts: 9849
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:11 am
Location: SE Wisconsin

Re: It's Not Always Acid Reflux!

Post by LSAT » Sun May 27, 2018 12:07 pm

There are 2 esophageal sphincters...lower one between the stomach and esophagus and upper one between the esophagus and the throat When the lower is weak or open the stomach acid can flow up into the esophagus. If the upper is weak, fumes from the acid can get into the throat which may feel like a lump in the throat or just irritability.

_________________
Machine: S9 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine
Mask: Mirage Quattro™ Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: S9 Autoset...APAP Settings 12-20

User avatar
chunkyfrog
Posts: 24763
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Nebraska--what does not kill us, makes us stronger

Re: It's Not Always Acid Reflux!

Post by chunkyfrog » Sun May 27, 2018 1:30 pm

Never ignore the possibility that age, overuse, or a serious health condition is the cause.
Cpap is sometimes used on BABIES--so it is not as harsh as you imagine.

_________________
Machine: AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Backup: Devillbiss Intellipap Autoadjust
I once was lost in apnea; but now I'm found--breathing easily all night long.
Medicare suppliers:
https://www.medicare.gov/supplierdirectory/search.html