My worse symptoms... can anyone relate?

LiquidFry · Post by **LiquidFry** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:59 am

This board is awesome, and I hope to find some help or guidance with my own situation.

I am male, 34, 5’9”, 210lbs. I used to be much more fit (but even at my lightest - 175lbs, I would wake up gasping for breath. At my last doctor appointment, I was really struggling. I told her I was so tired all day long (this started really grabbing a hold of me at the end of December), and my blood pressure was high (usually its normal). She ordered an at home sleep test. My AHI was 6.4, and oxygen levels dipped as low as 84% and stayed around 89%. I know my numbers are mild, but I feel TERRIBLE.

Other symptoms are lightheadedness, anxiety and depression (which I’ve been dealing with since my dad was diagnosed with cancer two years ago), brain fog, and just a general feeling of being a slug through life. I hate it. I hate living my life like this. I’m dragging all day until 10pm when I start feeling alive. Because of that, I don’t even bother going to sleep until 1:30, then having to wake up at 8. My younger son is a bad sleeper too, so sleeping through the night is almost impossible. Maybe this is all just sleep debt/deficit. Maybe I have trained my brain not to ever fully fall asleep due to the fact that my younger son is waking up at night?

I have a sleep test beginning of April. And to be honest, I am ready to get on an oral device or a cpap. I have to feel better.

My number one symptom that I just need to get rid of is the lightheadedness. Has anyone else felt lightheaded due to their sleep apnea? Has anyone had success in getting rid of it?

Thanks for any help!!

Julie · Post by **Julie** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:05 pm

Low BP can cause those symptoms and cpap lower it further, so keep up to date with it. But lightheadedness is otherwise not from OSA generally and you need to work with your MD to find out for sure, apart from OSA, what else might be going on... get your cardiac status checked, your blood sugar, thyroid, hormones, Vit. D, etc. etc. FWIW even losing a few lbs can really help OSA events, but back-sleeping makes them worse.

LiquidFry · Post by **LiquidFry** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:13 pm

Thank you Julie...

I have been to ENTs, otorolagysts, optometrists. I have done all kinds of blood tests, plus a brain MRI. I have continued monitoring my blood pressure and it always comes up normal. I take Vit D, fish oil, and magnesium every night before bed. Blood sugar is fine and I even bought a glucose meter just to see if I was hypoglycemic. I’m good there as well. My diet isn’t the best (as you can tell by my weight). I’ve been trying to drink more water, thinking I might just be slightly dehydrated every day. And the more I think about my symptoms, the worse it gets. (Yes, I also see a therapist).

That’s why I’m also thinking maybe it’s as simple as a lack of good, restful sleep.

In the past 10 days or so, I have made an effort not to sleep on my back. I have started to dream again, so I’m hoping that’s a sign of progress.

I really do need to lose some weight though. I just can’t seem to motivate myself when I’m so tired. Time is hard to come by anymore as well.

nicholasjh1 · Post by **nicholasjh1** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:06 pm

Something is Modafinil, it's on label for compliant CPAP users. It's really helped me and some others reset so they're more awake during the day and go to sleep at night. I'm off it now but feeling pretty good.

mesenteria · Post by **mesenteria** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:14 pm

LiquidFry wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:13 pm
Thank you Julie...

I have been to ENTs, otorolagysts, optometrists. I have done all kinds of blood tests, plus a brain MRI. I have continued monitoring my blood pressure and it always comes up normal. I take ... and magnesium every night before bed.

Why magnesium? I never, ever, take supplements of any kind except some vision care for incipient macular holes (xeanthin and lutein). If you eat fresh fruit, get some leafy greens a couple of times a week, eat some read meat and nuts, and whole grains, you should be in good health nutritionally.

LiquidFry wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:13 pm

... (Yes, I also see a therapist).

If it's for general anxiety, you probably know already that it plays havoc with your endocrine system, and floods you constantly with higher-than-optimal levels of serum cortisol....due to constant high levels of epinephrine. I truly do wish you great success in this.

LiquidFry wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:13 pm

That’s why I’m also thinking maybe it’s as simple as a lack of good, restful sleep.

Your AHI, if accurately assessed, aren't off the charts. I'm not going to say you should look elsewhere, but...they're not all that bad.

LiquidFry wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:13 pm

In the past 10 days or so, I have made an effort not to sleep on my back. I have started to dream again, so I’m hoping that’s a sign of progress.

It's hard to argue with success.

It may take some time before you begin to feel better with a sustained and determined effort. I often awaken on my back, one or both arms behind my head, but I'm on CPAP. And rested.

LiquidFry wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:13 pm

I really do need to lose some weight though. I just can’t seem to motivate myself when I’m so tired. Time is hard to come by anymore as well.

If you don't mind my frankness, this.....this....is where you must draw your sword. I was fixing to ask you how much walking you do, or any other sustained exercise, but then I got down to this part of your message to us.

It may interest you to know that, if you are physically able to do it, aerobic exercise is the single best stress buster there is. Somehow, your body responds to sustained efforts that are higher demanding of energy than routine living, and it likes it. Exercise helps to regulate hormones and energy transfer at the cellular level. It improves brain chemistry. It helps to melt off the pounds. And it deals with the stress hormones and deleterious effects of andrenalin/epinephrine. This is your battle ground, from what little I know of your circumstances....and I appreciate that I do indeed know very little. When I find my girth expanding, usually in the weeks just prior to, and following, the Christmas holidays, I get out more and try to improve my eating. Cooking nutritious meals from scratch, no cans, no takeout, no opening bags, I even make my own whole grain bread, and then getting out for at least an hour every day or every second day without FAIL!!

Don't be a victim to learned helplesness. Desire to get your life back, and then flick that big switch. You'll find the clouds moving on, sun following, more optimism, more energy, more love of the nature you see on your walks....you can have all this.

Mogy · Post by **Mogy** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:20 pm

Hi Liquidfry,
Did you feel as bad when you were 175lbs?
From your original post:
"My AHI was 6.4, and oxygen levels dipped as low as 84% and stayed around 89%. I know my numbers are mild, but I feel TERRIBLE."
It sounds like your oxygen level doesn't get above 90%. If that is the case, you have your answer why you feel terrible.

I used to have the same problem. I lost weight, my oxygen levels improved, I feel a lot better now.

nicholasjh1 · Post by **nicholasjh1** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:59 am

Just upping your pressure a bit, even if you have low events can help with oxygen as well. especially if you have a lot of hyponea's, the higher pressure will give you more air in your lungs.

Mikebear · Post by **Mikebear** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:08 am

LiquidFry wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:59 am
This board is awesome, and I hope to find some help or guidance with my own situation.

I’m dragging all day until 10pm when I start feeling alive. Because of that, I don’t even bother going to sleep until 1:30, then having to wake up at 8.

Thanks for any help!!

A lot of this appears to me to be sleep debt. I highlighted the sentence above that's most appropriate. The way you cure that, is you go to bed BEFORE 10pm, while you are still "dragging" per your own words.

You MUST do this before your brain goes back into the 'alert status' mode again, causing you to peak up and stay awake until 1:30am.

LiquidFry · Post by **LiquidFry** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:31 pm

mesenteria wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:14 pm

LiquidFry wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:13 pm
Thank you Julie...

I have been to ENTs, otorolagysts, optometrists. I have done all kinds of blood tests, plus a brain MRI. I have continued monitoring my blood pressure and it always comes up normal. I take ... and magnesium every night before bed.

Why magnesium? I never, ever, take supplements of any kind except some vision care for incipient macular holes (xeanthin and lutein). If you eat fresh fruit, get some leafy greens a couple of times a week, eat some read meat and nuts, and whole grains, you should be in good health nutritionally.
LiquidFry wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:13 pm

... (Yes, I also see a therapist).
If it's for general anxiety, you probably know already that it plays havoc with your endocrine system, and floods you constantly with higher-than-optimal levels of serum cortisol....due to constant high levels of epinephrine. I truly do wish you great success in this.
LiquidFry wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:13 pm

That’s why I’m also thinking maybe it’s as simple as a lack of good, restful sleep.
Your AHI, if accurately assessed, aren't off the charts. I'm not going to say you should look elsewhere, but...they're not all that bad.

LiquidFry wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:13 pm

In the past 10 days or so, I have made an effort not to sleep on my back. I have started to dream again, so I’m hoping that’s a sign of progress.

It's hard to argue with success. It may take some time before you begin to feel better with a sustained and determined effort. I often awaken on my back, one or both arms behind my head, but I'm on CPAP. And rested.

LiquidFry wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:13 pm

I really do need to lose some weight though. I just can’t seem to motivate myself when I’m so tired. Time is hard to come by anymore as well.
If you don't mind my frankness, this.....this....is where you must draw your sword. I was fixing to ask you how much walking you do, or any other sustained exercise, but then I got down to this part of your message to us.

It may interest you to know that, if you are physically able to do it, aerobic exercise is the single best stress buster there is. Somehow, your body responds to sustained efforts that are higher demanding of energy than routine living, and it likes it. Exercise helps to regulate hormones and energy transfer at the cellular level. It improves brain chemistry. It helps to melt off the pounds. And it deals with the stress hormones and deleterious effects of andrenalin/epinephrine. This is your battle ground, from what little I know of your circumstances....and I appreciate that I do indeed know very little. When I find my girth expanding, usually in the weeks just prior to, and following, the Christmas holidays, I get out more and try to improve my eating. Cooking nutritious meals from scratch, no cans, no takeout, no opening bags, I even make my own whole grain bread, and then getting out for at least an hour every day or every second day without FAIL!!

Don't be a victim to learned helplesness. Desire to get your life back, and then flick that big switch. You'll find the clouds moving on, sun following, more optimism, more energy, more love of the nature you see on your walks....you can have all this.

Thank you very much for your response.

I take those supplements because I read that they can really help with mental issues. The therapist also really helps. She has been wonderful. I started getting anxiety after my dad was diagnosed with cancer. It’s now eight months since he passed, things have been up and down, but I feel I’m getting a little better mentally. This tiredness/sleepiness is kicking my butt though. I could fall asleep right now, and I t’s really putting a damper on my life.

I am well aware of what exercise can do for a person. I started running in September, but have drastically decreased the exercise in the last month. I last ran two weeks ago, and I’m in sort of a limbo. I don’t know whether I should keep on running, or hit the gym. I have to do something though, because I can’t live like this. My sleep study is on April 2, so I hope to get some clarity and answers then.

Learned helplessness.... hmmm. I don’t feel like I’m helpless. I feel like I’m trying to improve. Actually, as I finished writing that, I realized maybe I’m not trying to improve at all. I haven’t gone running. I haven’t meditated. I haven’t tried to eat right. I haven’t tried to go to bed at a decent time. Damn. How and When does that light switch get flicked?

LiquidFry · Post by **LiquidFry** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:33 pm

Mogy wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:20 pm
Hi Liquidfry,
Did you feel as bad when you were 175lbs?
From your original post:
"My AHI was 6.4, and oxygen levels dipped as low as 84% and stayed around 89%. I know my numbers are mild, but I feel TERRIBLE."
It sounds like your oxygen level doesn't get above 90%. If that is the case, you have your answer why you feel terrible.

I used to have the same problem. I lost weight, my oxygen levels improved, I feel a lot better now.

Thank you for your reply!

So oxygen levels at night play a role in how I feel through the day?

I wonder if my oxygen levels are also low through the day. I catch myself often holding my breath, or just nose breathing.

Time to lose some weight I think.

LiquidFry · Post by **LiquidFry** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:34 pm

nicholasjh1 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:59 am
Just upping your pressure a bit, even if you have low events can help with oxygen as well. especially if you have a lot of hyponea's, the higher pressure will give you more air in your lungs.

Thank you,

I don’t have a machine yet. My thorough sleep study is April 2nd.

LiquidFry · Post by **LiquidFry** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:38 pm

Mikebear wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:08 am

LiquidFry wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:59 am
This board is awesome, and I hope to find some help or guidance with my own situation.

I’m dragging all day until 10pm when I start feeling alive. Because of that, I don’t even bother going to sleep until 1:30, then having to wake up at 8.

Thanks for any help!!

A lot of this appears to me to be sleep debt. I highlighted the sentence above that's most appropriate. The way you cure that, is you go to bed BEFORE 10pm, while you are still "dragging" per your own words.

You MUST do this before your brain goes back into the 'alert status' mode again, causing you to peak up and stay awake until 1:30am.

Thank you so much.

I suspected sleep debt has a lot to do with my situation. I haven’t slept right in 5 years due to my young boys who are either crying at night, trying to get in our bed, or waking up super early.

The problem also is that I get home from work at 9:30. I guess I just want some time to myself after work to unwind. But I guess the repercussions is that I feel how I feel today.

ChicagoGranny · Post by **ChicagoGranny** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:17 pm

LiquidFry wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:31 pm
I realized maybe I’m not trying to improve at all. I haven’t gone running. I haven’t meditated. I haven’t tried to eat right. I haven’t tried to go to bed at a decent time. Damn. How and When does that light switch get flicked?

Don't be so rough on yourself. It looks like you are trying ------->

LiquidFry wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:59 am
...
I told her I was so tired all day long (this started really grabbing a hold of me at the end of December), and my blood pressure was high (usually its normal). She ordered an at home sleep test.

... And to be honest, I am ready to get on an oral device or a cpap. ... My thorough sleep study is April 2nd.

Keep sleeping on your sides or stomach until you get your CPAP. You know what a poor night's sleep does. Wait until you see what a good night's sleep does for your spirit!

ChicagoGranny · Post by **ChicagoGranny** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:18 pm

LiquidFry wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:38 pm
LiquidFry

BTW, before you take delivery of a CPAP machine, find out the model number and run it by members here to make sure it is appropriate.

Julie · Post by **Julie** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:20 pm

Low 02 at anytime affects your whole body, all systems, so what happens at night affects you in the daytime as well, but don't confuse things - apneic events (when you quit breathing at night for short times) are a result of your throat closing and not allowing air/02 in properly and when it finally gets in, that's what wakes you, a little bit, but many times and the number of times that happens add up to less fulfilling sleep... which is why you feel lousy when awake in the daytime. Most of us when NOT on cpap sleep longer hrs at night trying to make up for the problem, but all that happens is that we continue to have more events... not much help!

My worse symptoms... can anyone relate?

My worse symptoms... can anyone relate?

Re: My worse symptoms... can anyone relate?

Re: My worse symptoms... can anyone relate?

Re: My worse symptoms... can anyone relate?

Re: My worse symptoms... can anyone relate?

Re: My worse symptoms... can anyone relate?

Re: My worse symptoms... can anyone relate?

Re: My worse symptoms... can anyone relate?

Re: My worse symptoms... can anyone relate?

Re: My worse symptoms... can anyone relate?

Re: My worse symptoms... can anyone relate?

Re: My worse symptoms... can anyone relate?

Re: My worse symptoms... can anyone relate?

Re: My worse symptoms... can anyone relate?

Re: My worse symptoms... can anyone relate?