Any ideas on what's going on

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Pugsy
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Re: Any ideas on what's going on

Post by Pugsy » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:47 pm

I have a copy of your card and I have ResScan and as soon as I have the time and find a usable SD card I am going to run it through my ResScan just to see what it shows.

But I think you are right and it's no big deal. Just looks weird as all get out and a bit scary looking until people realize it just happens sometimes to some people.
I have seen Respironics seem to report the same thing.

I will let you know once I get it done. Got lots going on right now and it's not urgent and not like we can do anything about it anyway.
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

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RiverDave
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Re: Any ideas on what's going on

Post by RiverDave » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:51 pm

I suspect it may be a postural/positional thing. I spend the vast majority or even entirety of the night on my stomach (based on the observation that I have never woken up in any other position). I believe that adds to the pressure applied to the heart, which would magnify any pressure wave from the heart. I may have just been in the "right" position when things were normal. I mill try to test this in the near future. I do have a trail cam, so we'll see.

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RiverDave
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Re: Any ideas on what's going on

Post by RiverDave » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:52 pm

I have a copy of your card and I have ResScan and as soon as I have the time and find a usable SD card I am going to run it through my ResScan just to see what it shows.
Thank you, Pugsy

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jnk...
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Re: Any ideas on what's going on

Post by jnk... » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:37 pm

I feel like making one of my weird long-winded captain-obvious posts in summary for newbies who might stumble onto this thread and try to make sense of what the heck is going on in it.

The information provided by modern full-data PAP machines is amazing. But the sensors and the way the data gets recorded and reported are somewhat proprietary (for patent purposes) and thus unique to each brand. SleepyHead software is a powerfull tool that does its best to provide a unified presentation of information from differing brands.

Much of the data from home treatment machines, amazing as it may be, is still, when presented graphically as squiggly lines, an analog representation of a digital recording of a complicated analog system. So a little ambiguity in interpretation of home machine info is to be expected at certain resolutions of the squigglies.

To me, when experienced people like Pugsy and Palerider are willing to glance at SleepyHead reports and express the opinion that nothing jumps out to their practiced eye as obvious indications of the need to change something, that is truly valuable. Many of the rest of us here want to support that by not getting in the way of it while learning from it.

As for the saw-tooth patterns discussed here, my opinion as an amateur researcher is that there isn't a consensus in general in the context of home-machine data, and the various factions and specialties in the relatively new sleep-breathing industry might take different views based on their individual perspectives.

For example, a sleep tech might think in terms of filtering out artifact; an ENT sleep doc might want to have a look into the airway to make sure there is nothing unusual; a cardiac sleep doc might want to hunt down the source; a pulmo sleep doc might order a full lung evaluation. But hey, they all look for excuses to do what they do, don't they.

In the context of what happens here, if it doesn't help in the decision-making process of what mode of treatment at what pressure(s) might provide the best PAP therapy, it is likely to get ignored, in the grand scheme of things. But in the interests of curiosity, learning, and all-around helpfulness, questions like these are part of what keeps this kind of board fun and exciting and educational.

End of captain-obvious post.
-jeff, a user (not a pro) who suffers from an ongoing, long-term, nocturnal addiction to air (S9/P10)

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RiverDave
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Re: Any ideas on what's going on

Post by RiverDave » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:15 pm

Well said, jnk.

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palerider
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Re: Any ideas on what's going on

Post by palerider » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:21 pm

jnk... wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:37 pm
For example, a sleep tech might think in terms of filtering out artifact;
For what it's worth, I did run it by a sleep tech, who said he'd seen something similar, but on the chest/abdomen belts, when the sensor batteries were low and they'd pick up what looked to be a cardiac pattern... but not from the airflow sensor. Since we don't have any low batteries in this situation, he gave me a big "I dunno" :D

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TedVPAP
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Re: Any ideas on what's going on

Post by TedVPAP » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:24 pm

Similar waveforms as discussed here viewtopic/t156834/what-is-the-significa ... -rate.html
My friend Steve saw a new doctor and has been referred to another - I'll let you know if anything comes from it.

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Re: Any ideas on what's going on

Post by RiverDave » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:28 pm

PR,
In doing some reading, the artifact can be picked up on any pressure measuring device they use. Heck, they've even seen it on the EEG traces (still trying to wrap my brain around that one). Thanks for checking, though

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RiverDave
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Re: Any ideas on what's going on

Post by RiverDave » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:31 pm

Ted,
Thanks for that. I was suspicious of my RR graphs. RR hit 50/min. I would have figured if it was that high, I would wake up dead the next morning.

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Pugsy
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Re: Any ideas on what's going on

Post by Pugsy » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:45 pm

Well it's showing up in ResScan. I tried to get as close to same time frame as possible.
See attachment below.
Above that I really can't offer much opinion since this is something that I don't have a clue what it means or how significant it is for anything.
This is where I say "see a doctor if it bugs you".
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RiverDave
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Re: Any ideas on what's going on

Post by RiverDave » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:57 pm

Pugsy,
ResScan actually shows more sawteeth (I think). Thanks for looking at it, I appreciate it. My respiration rate, based on your graph is about 13 (Sleepyhead reported 40-50), but see Ted's reference. Although weird, I'm not concerned. I will bring it up with my cardiologist just to show him he doesn't know everything (gotta keep them honest). Unfortunately I've never seen a sleep doctor - it's all been via DME or email.

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Pugsy
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Re: Any ideas on what's going on

Post by Pugsy » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:28 pm

SleepyHead has report like double respiration rates before but I don't know how or why and I don't remember seeing all this.
But I supposed it is possible that the little extra bumps SH thinks is a little bump in something in the respiration causing some double count...it's all a big supposition...
ResScan doesn't give a respiration count one way or the other. It's just a data point that is't reported in ResCan anywhere I could find.
This artifact may have something to do with the weird bumpy breaths and SH just is counting too many breaths.

Again...all suppositions for me. Only thing I really know about this stuff is I can never remember the word ballistocardiographic artifact much less what it means. All I know is that it happens sometimes and shows up like this and I don't know that anyone has ever come back and explain things after they saw the doctor about it.

And a quick glance at some other time frames...doesn't show it. So it intermittent.

If do happen to have further investigation about it and some good solid answers I would be interested in learning more.
When Dave would attempt to teach us he like to do it in quiz form but the problem was we didn't no the answers because the had had the experience first. So we always got a test before ever getting the study material...very frustrating trying learn anything from him.

So if you investigate further and get some answers I would like to know what the answers might be just for my own educational expansion.


Good luck.
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

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RiverDave
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Re: Any ideas on what's going on

Post by RiverDave » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:37 pm

Will do. Next Appt is 5/29. I will post a new thread

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jnk...
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Re: Any ideas on what's going on

Post by jnk... » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:01 pm

One of the ancient flow-bumps discussions that also went way over my head. But hey, whenever someone let SAG, Krakow, and -SWS into the same room, somebody somewhere was bound to learn something . . .

viewtopic/t26896/BILEVEL-PAP-Therapy-Pe ... 45#p240816
-jeff, a user (not a pro) who suffers from an ongoing, long-term, nocturnal addiction to air (S9/P10)

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palerider
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Re: Any ideas on what's going on

Post by palerider » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:27 pm

RiverDave wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:37 pm
Will do. Next Appt is 5/29. I will post a new thread
Please just continue this one, so all the info's in one place.

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