breath "pooling" in mouth

[zonker]

hello to all!

yet another new user joins your ranks. i've been reading the posts for the past six days, trying to glean as much info as i can about apnea and what can be done about it.

i just started my treatment this past saturday night. and let me hasten to assure you, i'm not one of those lucky ducks who put on a mask and went right to sleep! after all, if that was the case, i wouldn't be here asking for help.

the third night in, i fell asleep and slept soundly for two hours. it was bliss! i don't know why i woke up, but i've not been able to duplicate falling asleep again.

here is my problem and i'm not sure that what i'm experiencing is the same as has been described elsewhere here. i'm using nasal pillows and a ruby chinstrap. and while it's difficult to get into the rhythm of breathing, it can be done. but what will inevitably happen is, my mouth will start to fill with air and i will snort it all out like a whinnying horse.

i've tried many different combinations of tightening and using the chin strap or not, so i can't say for certain that this happens with the chin strap. but i do know that i used tape last night and it still occurred.

is this the mouth breathing issue i've read about in this forum before? is this something that i just will get used to?

other information: prescription reads lifetime, ahi 10., autotitrate range of 5-18. . my machine is set on autoadjust, upper limit 16.5 cmh20, lower limit 7.0 cmh20, delay is 0, delay pressure is 5.0 cmh20.
i'm using large pillows which seem to be working fine, though i do have leaks occasionally.

i'm not currently using any software for data tracking.

i don't know what i've left out but please let me know if there is further info you need.

thank you all very much in advance.....

[postitnote]

I kind of remember that feeling. It's like a fart (sorry) on the inside of your face cheek. If that's what you feel it is from mouth breathing or probably mouth exhaling more precisely.

[Julie]

You shouldn't try to match your breathing to the machine - because it's trying to match itself to your breathing! That's how it finds and prevents apneas. The 'chipmunk cheek' syndrome you're having is another story, and I suggest you download SleepyHead software from the forum (free - see 1st 'Announcement' main pg) and track what happens overnight... post the graphs on Imgur.com and then link to this thread so we can see what's what and then give our 2 cents' worth. You shouldn't be tightening too much because the silicone cushion (the thin part touching you) needs to expand to seal properly, and either your mask just isn't well fitted or isn't the right one for you, or you might need a full face one, but til you use the software, we can't tell. Have you tried Padacheek.com liners - they help sealing and lessen strap marks.

[Jackiep]

Encountered the very same problem...seems to be under control now by use of chin strap and constant awareness that I must keep my mouth closed and my tongue behind front teeth. Raising humidity a notch was also suggested and That did make a difference.

[Pugsy]

Chipmunk cheeks....air goes up the nose and starts down the airway and makes a detour into the mouth. Lips are closed so the cheeks inflate. The trick is to block the back of the mouth so that the air won't enter the mouth and instead will go on down the airway like it is supposed to do.

The tongue needs to be that blocking agent or door so that the air can't enter the mouth. Usually keeping the tongue placed in the roof of the mouth or the tip right behind the front teeth will keep that door closed. Easy to do while awake but once we go to sleep the tongue gets lazy and drops down and opens the door so that the air enters the mouth and with the lips closed the cheeks inflate like a balloon. Annoying for sure because by that mouth most people have to open the mouth to let the air out. It's not really mouth breathing but more like mouth leaking if the lips are closed except for the decompression.

Takes a lot of practice but the tongue can get in a habit of keeping that door closed.

Even if the actual mouth leak is very small the fact that this wakes us up is something we want to try to fix if we can because multiple awakenings for any reason make it real hard to get good quality sleep.

Use the available software to get an idea if this is a quick thing or if it really amounts to prolonged mouth breathing which would of course be a negative impact to therapy.

[zonker]

postitnote- thanks for the reply. i take it by your wording that you no longer have this problem.

so how did you conquer it? or did you just switch masks?

[zonker]

You shouldn't try to match your breathing to the machine - because it's trying to match itself to your breathing! That's how it finds and prevents apneas. The 'chipmunk cheek' syndrome you're having is another story, and I suggest you download SleepyHead software from the forum (free - see 1st 'Announcement' main pg) and track what happens overnight... post the graphs on Imgur.com and then link to this thread so we can see what's what and then give our 2 cents' worth. You shouldn't be tightening too much because the silicone cushion (the thin part touching you) needs to expand to seal properly, and either your mask just isn't well fitted or isn't the right one for you, or you might need a full face one, but til you use the software, we can't tell. Have you tried Padacheek.com liners - they help sealing and lessen strap marks.

thanks for you reply, julie!

lot's of info there. let me see if i can sort out out in my wee poor brain. i DO intend to to use the sleepyhead software. that seems like the smart thing to do. i just didn't think i would need to get any data now to help solve my problem. i didn't say in my original post, but i'm only ever wearing my mask for 2 hours per night because of this problem. will that be enough data to do any good?

no fortunately i read a linked post here about the proper way to put on the nasal pillow mask. and i make sure they inflate and are not tightened into my nose.

does padacheek offer anything for nasal pillows? i know, i can go look myself, but was just wondering if you knew.

does one get this same chipmunk cheeks with a full face or hybrid mask?

again, thanks!

[zonker]

Encountered the very same problem...seems to be under control now by use of chin strap and constant awareness that I must keep my mouth closed and my tongue behind front teeth. Raising humidity a notch was also suggested and That did make a difference.

thank you for your reply, jackiep!

after i had posted about lack of chinstrap, i decided i best don that for last night's sleep. and it did nothing to alleviate the problem. and frankly i'm having a huge problem keeping my tongue just exactly so. every time i got anywhere NEAR nodding off, there comes that air rush again.

and as i lay there last night, i remembered something that might have a large bearing on this. when i was at the sleep clinic, the doctor commented on how the arch for the roof of my mouth is. he was quite astonished by it. and all my life i've had dentists comment on it as well.

now i'm wondering about it. because it DOES seem that my tongue does not press flat against the roof of my mouth.

one last thing. i put in my profile that i had the humidifier but that's a small white lie. when i ordered my machine from cpap.com, i forgot to order that as well! i've since ordered and it's on the way.

but you say increased humidity helped you? hmmmm.....

[zonker]

Chipmunk cheeks....air goes up the nose and starts down the airway and makes a detour into the mouth. Lips are closed so the cheeks inflate. The trick is to block the back of the mouth so that the air won't enter the mouth and instead will go on down the airway like it is supposed to do.

The tongue needs to be that blocking agent or door so that the air can't enter the mouth. Usually keeping the tongue placed in the roof of the mouth or the tip right behind the front teeth will keep that door closed. Easy to do while awake but once we go to sleep the tongue gets lazy and drops down and opens the door so that the air enters the mouth and with the lips closed the cheeks inflate like a balloon. Annoying for sure because by that mouth most people have to open the mouth to let the air out. It's not really mouth breathing but more like mouth leaking if the lips are closed except for the decompression.

Takes a lot of practice but the tongue can get in a habit of keeping that door closed.

Even if the actual mouth leak is very small the fact that this wakes us up is something we want to try to fix if we can because multiple awakenings for any reason make it real hard to get good quality sleep.

Use the available software to get an idea if this is a quick thing or if it really amounts to prolonged mouth breathing which would of course be a negative impact to therapy.

thanks for your reply, pugsy!

yeah, see my reply to jaciep above. i'm nowhere near asleep when this starts happening. the negative impact on my therapy is that i can't get to sleep at all!

further complicating matters is the fact that i'm paying out of pocket for this. it's a long story, but for now i'm stuck with "catastrophic" insurance which will NOT pay for pre-existing conditions. so i'm very aware of the 30 day return policy at cpap.com. i'm uncertain if i can get on top of this situation before then or if i'd be better off sending this back and getting either a full face or hybrid mask.

do you(or anybody here) think i'd be better off, just on this single issue, to go for another type of mask?

[Pugsy]

If you can't keep your mouth anywhere near closed with the Swift FX then you need to get a full face mask.
You can always revisit a nasal pillow mask again later if you want to.
You need to be able to sleep using the machine...and you aren't getting that done right now if you can't sleep at all with the current mask.

[zonker]

If you can't keep your mouth anywhere near closed with the Swift FX then you need to get a full face mask.
You can always revisit a nasal pillow mask again later if you want to.
You need to be able to sleep using the machine...and you aren't getting that done right now if you can't sleep at all with the current mask.

thanks for your reply, pugsy!

and thanks for confirming what i was suspecting. i'm going to research masks over the next few days. meanwhile, i DID get less of air out of the mouth last night by using a cervix collar. still, not enough to get to sleep. i also want to hang on as my humidifier will arrive this week. i really wish i had remembered to order that WITH the machine, it would've been cheaper. at any rate, someone in this thread suggested bumping up the humidity. i want to try the humidity before i give up on the nasal pillows altogether.

again, thanks!

[Pugsy]

I hope the humidifier helps. I personally can't imagine not using one. I had such a terrible reaction to just a lower setting than I was used to that I have always said that if my humidifier quit and I didn't have a spare that I simply wouldn't use my machine because the OSA symptoms I had weren't nearly as bad as the nasal issues I had when I turned the humidity down...or forget to fill the water chamber and it runs dry during the night.
It's sure worth giving the humidifier a chance to help.
Full face masks fix the mouth opening problem but create new problems in other areas for some people...like more surface area to mess with for leak control, or comfort, or claustraphobia or just plain old don't want one.
I think people should at least try whatever mask it is that they want to try and give it a good effort if that's what they want to use.

There was a forum member a while back that I learned used tape and a chin strap to help with the chipmunk cheek thing because her tongue couldn't get that door closed no matter how much she tried.
And she simply didn't want to go the full face mask route so every night for years and years she tapes her lips and wears a wide chin strap tight enough to compress the cheeks so they won't inflate...just so she can wear a nasal pillow mask because that is what she wants to use and she didn't want to use a full face.

Sometimes we just gotta do what we gotta do to get the job done and the job is sleep with the machine.
Whatever it takes.

[zonker]

I hope the humidifier helps. I personally can't imagine not using one. I had such a terrible reaction to just a lower setting than I was used to that I have always said that if my humidifier quit and I didn't have a spare that I simply wouldn't use my machine because the OSA symptoms I had weren't nearly as bad as the nasal issues I had when I turned the humidity down...or forget to fill the water chamber and it runs dry during the night.
It's sure worth giving the humidifier a chance to help.
Full face masks fix the mouth opening problem but create new problems in other areas for some people...like more surface area to mess with for leak control, or comfort, or claustraphobia or just plain old don't want one.
I think people should at least try whatever mask it is that they want to try and give it a good effort if that's what they want to use.

There was a forum member a while back that I learned used tape and a chin strap to help with the chipmunk cheek thing because her tongue couldn't get that door closed no matter how much she tried.
And she simply didn't want to go the full face mask route so every night for years and years she tapes her lips and wears a wide chin strap tight enough to compress the cheeks so they won't inflate...just so she can wear a nasal pillow mask because that is what she wants to use and she didn't want to use a full face.

Sometimes we just gotta do what we gotta do to get the job done and the job is sleep with the machine.
Whatever it takes.

yeah, the humidifier is due in tomorrow so i'll see if it makes a difference. who knows? maybe that's the cure and i can get on with my therapy.

the more i read here, the luckier i count myself. i was diagnosed mild to moderate OSA. so i haven't had the horrible symptoms some have. i've never fallen asleep during the day. i don't have concentration issues. i do have memory problems. mainly, i just want to go to bed and sleep straight through until morning.

i'm lucky in that i'm retired, even if i'm only 61. so i don't have to treat my apnea AND have to get up and go to work the next day.

i never had to "face" having to do this treatment. i welcome it wholly because i really don't see any other way to go.

and even though this is initially out of pocket, i can certainly afford it.

meanwhile, i'm leaning towards a hybrid mask. but i'll make a new post of that and see what others may have to say about that.

thanks for your advice!

[M'ohms]

Early on, I had chipmunk cheeks too. What has worked for me is to close my lips and form a suction inside my mouth as if I were trying to get the last molecule out of a cough drop. In my case, it positions my tongue in just the right spot to prevent air from entering my mouth. It took a couple of weeks for this to become second nature and I have had no problems with it since. If, during the night, you do get chipmunk cheeks, just repeat the suction maneuver and start again. Eventually, you'll find some way for it to work.

[zonker]

Early on, I had chipmunk cheeks too. What has worked for me is to close my lips and form a suction inside my mouth as if I were trying to get the last molecule out of a cough drop. In my case, it positions my tongue in just the right spot to prevent air from entering my mouth. It took a couple of weeks for this to become second nature and I have had no problems with it since. If, during the night, you do get chipmunk cheeks, just repeat the suction maneuver and start again. Eventually, you'll find some way for it to work.

thanks for the reply. i'm thinking of abandoning the nasal mask, hence my post about the hybrid. i think the high arch of the roof of my mouth is just too great for my tongue to stay pressed up there. but the chinstrap does help and i've got the humidifier so i'll try again tonight.

thanks again!