Why do some people hate full face masks?

[camper]

So - the basic conclusion has to be: If there is no such thing as one size and one style fits all, for clothing, then its also true for medical equipment. OK.

I sometimes modify shoes and boots to fit my feet, because feet aren't shaped the way typical shoemakers assume. Before I started modifying them, I was either uncomfortable, and probably damaging my feet, or, if I chose a size large enough not to squeeze my toes, I kept getting injured, because the midfoot and hindfoot weren't snug enough, and and a few other things. When I've suggested to people with shoe and boot problems that they modify their shoes and boots to fit too, most of them believe they can't do it, or that there is something innately wrong with the idea. A few hire podiatrists to do much the same thing, and some podiatrists usually succeed.

I suppose I could do something similar for my CPAP masks. Perhaps the same sort of techniques that apply to shoes applies to masks: add foam or tape in various places until they fit perfectly, without having to be forced. But masks don't last all that long. I would have to make changes every time I switched masks.

[SleepGeek]

I suppose I could do something similar for my CPAP masks.

Do something like these "Lab Rat Awards"? Then share it here....
https://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic.php?p=127492

[CPAP2017]

I've had two basal cell carcinomas on my nose and two mohs surgeries to fix. I was forced to try a cushion that didn't go on top of the nose. I gave the nasal masks a valiant effort but due to nose structure and congestion could make it work. I got around to the F30i and haven't gone back.

[zonker]

I suppose I could do something similar for my CPAP masks.

yup. one size definitely does NOT fit all.

But masks don't last all that long.

why do you say that? i've had my p10 pillow mask last for 4 years. prolly would've lasted longer but i changed it out when i got a freebie replacement.

how long does a mask last you?

[Okie bipap]

how long does a mask last you?

The mask frame I am using is over four years old. I changed the cushion the first of the year. The old cushion was a year old. I had started using it the first of last year. I change the head gear once a year at the most.

[zonker]

how long does a mask last you?

The mask frame I am using is over four years old. I changed the cushion the first of the year. The old cushion was a year old. I had started using it the first of last year. I change the head gear once a year at the most.

was the cushion worn out within the first year?

[Okie bipap]

Not really. I had six spares, so I decided to go ahead and change them.

[babydinosnoreless]

I'm on my second frame because the first one got crunched. The cushions I change out ever 5-6 months usually because they start ripping at the top.

[Kiralynx]

Why?

1) They're hot. Even with a Pad-a-cheek liner, the silicone in proximity to my skin makes me sweat.
2) As a side sleeper, I have yet to find a FFM which lets me SLEEP. Big clunky monster, interfering with getting comfortable. (I use one solely when I have a respiratory infection and can't breathe through my nose)
3) Claustrophobia. I can't stand straps all over my head and face, and that THING covering me up like an Alien.
4) I just don't like the d@mn things, and have yet to find one that really fits.
5) I *like* my Tap-Pap, and I use a simple "brandy keg" to keep my jaw shut.

[ChicagoGranny]

A FFM often requires a higher pressure to open the airway than a nasal or nasal pillow mask because the FFM will push back on the jaw, further narrowing the airway.

MANY people report needing a lower pressure after removing that backwards pressure on their jaw, thus allowing the airway to open up a bit more.

When the mouth opens, the mandible moves back slightly. This is basic anatomy and is true in all normal humans. The backward movement of the mandible narrows the airway slightly and makes it more susceptible to collapse. So, it's the opening of the mouth that results in higher pressure needs.

Conversely, someone who transitions successfully to a nasal interface has figured out how to keep the mouth closed. With the mouth closed, the airway is not as narrow, and lower pressures are effective.

An FFM, even one tightened to the point of pain, cannot move the mandible backward. The mandible fore and aft position is fixed and only moves as the mouth opens and closes. Take your hand and push back hard on your chin. You will not be able to push the mandible backward at all.

A mask pushing the mandible backward is a cpaptalk myth that needs to go away.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17288988/

[palerider]

A FFM often requires a higher pressure to open the airway than a nasal or nasal pillow mask because the FFM will push back on the jaw, further narrowing the airway.

MANY people report needing a lower pressure after removing that backwards pressure on their jaw, thus allowing the airway to open up a bit more.

When the mouth opens, the mandible moves back slightly. This is basic anatomy and is true in all normal humans. The backward movement of the mandible narrows the airway slightly and makes it more susceptible to collapse. So, it's the opening of the mouth that results in higher pressure needs.

Not necessarily.
a normal jaw has some forward and backward movement allowance.

Try it, you can protrude your lower jaw, or pull it backwards, at least if you haven't had some sort of weird surgery that pins it on a swivel.

Conversely, someone who transitions successfully to a nasal interface has figured out how to keep the mouth closed. With the mouth closed, the airway is not as narrow, and lower pressures are effective.

it's not that simple.

An FFM, even one tightened to the point of pain, cannot move the mandible backward. The mandible fore and aft position is fixed and only moves as the mouth opens and closes. Take your hand and push back hard on your chin. You will not be able to push the mandible backward at all.

You've obviously never tried to do this. Jaw's have movement side to side (which means, conclusively, that there's also forward and backwards movement.

A mask pushing the mandible backward is a cpaptalk myth that needs to go away.

No, it's not a 'myth'. I can, without much work, move my lower jaw so that the lower teeth are about 3 mm in front of my upper, and then pull it back (using jaw muscles for both of these) till the lower teeth are 2mm behind the upper teeth.

I don't know where you've gotten your idea that lower jaws don't MOVE, but you're mistaken.

I've noticed that since switching to a nasal pillow, my jaw is further forward when the machine is up to pressure vs where my teeth normally sit when I don't have a mask on.

It's no "myth".

[ChicagoGranny]

Jaw's have movement side to side (which means, conclusively, that there's also forward and backwards movement.

The logic fail in this statement is so obvious that it's a pain to explain it. The capability of side-to-side movement does not, in any way, prove that backward movement is possible.

pull it back (using jaw muscles for both of these) till the lower teeth are 2mm behind the upper teeth.

2 mm behind the front upper teeth is the normal resting position for the lower teeth. You didn't pull your jaw back. You just let it return to its relaxed position which it will be in when you are sleeping with any mask.

your upper front teeth should fall in front of your lower teeth (toward your lip), and should overlap them by about 2 mm.
https://www.strobeldentistry.com/blog/2 ... to-line-up

Read some science instead of making things up as you go along:

... the more elongated and narrow upper airway during open-mouth breathing may aggravate the collapsibility of the upper airway and, thus, negatively affect OSA severity.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20957487/

[palerider]

... the more elongated and narrow upper airway during open-mouth breathing may aggravate the collapsibility of the upper airway and, thus, negatively affect OSA severity.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20957487/

You're welcome to your *opinion* but that doesn't make it fact.

Your science does not address jaw movement, or forward jaw movement when the airway has positive pressure in it from a CPAP.

Here, here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJh_PZwi9uc

Jaws can *move* even without opening the mouth.

And yes, they can be pressed further back than the normal resting point when strapped in with a mask.

[ChicagoGranny]

You're welcome to your *opinion* but that doesn't make it fact.

Coming from you, that's like a concession to the argument.

But now, you are moving the goal post.

Your science does not address jaw movement, or forward jaw movement when the airway has positive pressure in it from a CPAP.

Do you really mean to claim that CPAP pressure can move the jaw forward? Let's see if your thinking is clearer tomorrow.

Sleep well.

[palerider]

You're welcome to your *opinion* but that doesn't make it fact.

Coming from you, that's like a concession to the argument.

But now, you are moving the goal post.

Your science does not address jaw movement, or forward jaw movement when the airway has positive pressure in it from a CPAP.

Do you really mean to claim that CPAP pressure can move the jaw forward? Let's see if your thinking is clearer tomorrow.

Sleep well.

Yes, it *CAN*, the whole point is to open the airway.

Maybe you should try a different mask.

Here, here's a video about jaw motion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJh_PZwi9uc