AirCurve 10 bilevel vs Airsense 10

[supreme]

Theoretically should an Airsense 10 provide as much relief for sleep apnea as the Aircurve 10?



I have an airsense 10 I never used because I could not get used to the machine/poor insurance where I wasn’t able to get the right masks.



I finally decided to do something about my sleep apnea and got the air curve 10 covered my insurance.


I asked my provider to configure my airsense 10 with the same settings as my air curve 10.


After trying out the airsense 10 for 1-2 months I found it was not as effective as the air curve 10.


I do travel and was hoping to use my airsense 10.


Should I revisit the settings with Oscar?

[vandownbytheriver]

Yes, obviously... both machines have identical hardware... the AC10 can be run in CPAP mode, not sure if that's what you're doing... and it's known that EPR is not equivalent to PS.. so we need to see all settings of both machines to make a determination.

Not clear if you got a new mask that solved all your problems, or really what your original problems were. Load them both into SleepHQ or Oscar (new version out!) and post links here, we love that.

Here I have to guess that you got a good mask but that you didn't like the mask when used with the older AS10... further description here would help.

[supreme]

AC10 should be in bipap mode. This was the whole reason I was prescribed the AC10.

The AC10 in bipap mode plus a full face mask was better than the Airsense 10 and nasal mask.

I will look into SleepHQ and Oscar to post what I can.

I would like to try my Airsense 10 again to see if I can sleep well with CPAP. I would like to be able to use the Airsense 10 as a backup or travel. However, I did a trial for 2 months and did not sleep well at all with the Airsense 10. Thus I switched back to the AC10.

[vandownbytheriver]

You can use either mask with either machine.

[NoOnesPerfect]

Depending on your Aircurve settings, it might be possible to set up the Airsense to provide a reasonable approximation of the same therapy. The two main limitations I am aware of, are

Airsense is limited to a maximum exhalation relief (EPR) of 3cm h2o, while the Aircurve can go much higher. Also, the Aircurve can adjust that pressure support in 10ths, while the Airsense is limited to whole integers.

Airsense has a maximum pressure of 20cm h20, while the Aircurve can go to 25.

With the Airsense, you set an inhalation pressure, which gets adjusted down by the EPR to make it easier to exhale. With the Aircurve, you set the exhalation pressure, which gets adjusted up by the pressure support (PS) number to make it easier to inhale. Same basic concept expressed two ways, but it can be confusing.

[supreme]

Not quite sure how to find my machine settings but I hope these comparisons help







I probably should increase my min pressure for AC10?





Realized I should probably post better data

[NoOnesPerfect]

If you were to scroll down slightly on the Oscar data on the left side of the screen, it would show your machine settings. However, based on the data, it looks like you had the airsense set up with an EPR of 3 (the maximum on that machine), but with the minimum pressure set so low, the EPR wasn’t actually doing anything for much of the time - the lowest the machine will provide is a pressure of 4cm h2o, so having a minimum of 5.2 means you are not getting much actual pressure relief.

To make your settings similar to the aircurve, you would need to increase the minimum pressure to 11 on the airsense (the 3 EPR would create a minimum exhale pressure of 8, just like on the aircurve). To get a maximum 16 exhale pressure on the airsense, you would need to set the maximum pressure to 19.

To be clear - with the airsense you set the inhale pressure and adjust it down with EPR to come up with an exhale pressure. The Aircurve is the exact opposite - you set an exhale pressure and adjust it up with PS.

You have a pressure support (PS) setting of 4 on the Aircurve, but the maximum you can get on the airsense is 3. That may not be enough to deal with your flow limitations to the same degree, but it’s the closest you will come with the airsense. I moved from an airsense to an aircurve myself fairly recently, and I absolutely do notice a difference with a PS of 4. My backup is the old airsense though, and it still gets me a decent night’s sleep.

I hope all this made sense, but definitely keep us informed and keep asking questions. There are many people far more experienced than I, who will no doubt jump in to help.

[ozij]

Very good points by NoOnesPerfect except for one.

To make your settings similar to the aircurve, you would need to increase the minimum pressure to 11 on the airsense (the 3 EPR would create a minimum exhale pressure of 8, just like on the aircurve). To get a maximum 16 exhale pressure on the airsense, you would need to set the maximum pressure to 19.

Looking at supreme's charts, we can see that even with the maximum set at 20, the Autoset doesn't go to a pressure higher than 15, and on other charts it doesn't even go above 13, despite the maximum being set at 20

That is an excellent example of why some people need an Aircurve machine, in which you can tell it: whatever the EPAP (exhale pressure) once this person gets ready to Inhale, you are to supply an IPAP that is 4 (or 5, or whatever) higher than the EPAP.

[supreme]

Like this?

[NoOnesPerfect]

The only thing I would change is the ramp - 45 minutes is way too long in my opinion since you really get no therapy at such a low pressure. Personally, I use a 5 minute ramp (just to get comfortable and to be sure everything is in place), and even then I use a ramp pressure right around my minimum therapy pressure. It’s really a comfort thing - if you need the ramp in order to fall asleep, then go for it. Otherwise, it really serves no purpose.

As for the pressure settings, yes, just like that.

[supreme]

ramp pressure = start pressure? Which is 5.2 in my picture. You would change it to the min pressure which is 11.0?

I'm excited to give my Airsense 10 a try tonight and see how I feel in the morning.

[supreme]

Airsense 10 definitely feels better with these new settings. The weird thing is I feel more tired using the Airsense 10 even when I've slept more than when I used the AirCurve 10.

I wake up more groggy with the Airsense 10 and feel tired in the morning. Unsure if my drowsiness in the afternoons have gone away with the Airsense 10 since if I'm active in the afternoons I do not get drowsy.

AirCurve 10 I woke up less groggy and tired in the morning (even with less hours of sleep than the Airsense 10).

Any theories as to why I am experiencing this difference?

Any other settings I should try on the Airsense 10?

At least now I can use my Airsense 10 as a backup if I really have to.

[vandownbytheriver]

Did you delete all your images? We have no idea of the settings of the two machines.

[NoOnesPerfect]

The main difference between the two machines is the pressure support/EPR - you have PS of 4 on the Aircurve compared to the equivalent of 3 on the Airsense. That difference likely results in better control of flow limitations with the Aircurve, which should leave you feeling more rested with the Aircurve, assuming flow limitations were an issue. Also, if makes exhaling easier in general, which could result in more restful sleep.