adding water detection to future cpap/bi-pap machines

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springman946
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adding water detection to future cpap/bi-pap machines

Post by springman946 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:18 pm

i was just wondering why haven't cpap/bi-pap companies like resmed and philips respironics came up with a way to alert the user when their water tank is low on water or empty by sounding a beeping sound I think it would be a great feature to have on all cpap/bi-pap devices in the future. if the water chamber was low or out of water the machine wold automatically shut down the heater plate so no damage is done. they could hook up a wire to the PC board inside the device and place the other end of the wire to some sort of scale where the water chamber goes when the device detects that the water chamber is low or out of water it emits a beeping sound to alert the user at that point. if it were me, I would want me bi-pap machine to wake me up to let me know when its time to fill my water chamber up again. also the machine should give you an on screen option if you would like it to remind you when your water chamber is low. yes or no if not then the machine would not emit any sound at all. just remember to check you water chamber like you do now

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Re: adding water detection to future cpap/bi-pap machines

Post by palerider » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:23 pm

I really don't want my cpap waking me up in the middle of the night...

I use it so I can sleep through the night, and not get waked up to deal with 'water' issues. :cough:

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Re: adding water detection to future cpap/bi-pap machines

Post by USMCVet » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:28 pm

springman946 wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:18 pm
i was just wondering why haven't cpap/bi-pap companies like resmed and philips respironics came up with a way to alert the user when their water tank is low on water or empty by sounding a beeping sound I think it would be a great feature to have on all cpap/bi-pap devices in the future. they could hook up a wire to the PC board inside the device and place the other end of the wire to some sort of scale where the water chamber goes when the device detects that the water chamber is low or out of water it emits a beeping sound to alert the user. at that point.
Might be nice if it could give you estimate of how long it will last at your normal settings. I forgot to refill mine last night and I usually go through less then half a night so I didn't worry about it.

Woke up with very dry nasal cavities. I refilled it when I couldn't sleep and rest of sleep was bad because they were already dry.

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lilly747
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Re: adding water detection to future cpap/bi-pap machines

Post by lilly747 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:33 pm

I ran out of water last night. I never ran out of water on my S9 VPAP. So why not make the water tank capable of holding enough water...stupid design flaw.

Guess I will try turning the temp down. Right now it is on auto.

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Re: adding water detection to future cpap/bi-pap machines

Post by Goofproof » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:53 pm

lilly747 wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:33 pm
I ran out of water last night. I never ran out of water on my S9 VPAP. So why not make the water tank capable of holding enough water...stupid design flaw.

Guess I will try turning the temp down. Right now it is on auto.
A five gallon HH tank won't fit in the overhead luggage storage, We have XPAP users trying to travel with 5 lb XPAP's complaining it's too much trouble. I'm waiting untill my new XPAP has a 55 inck HD Led T.V. built in with SAT T.V., and A/C! :lol: Jim
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Re: adding water detection to future cpap/bi-pap machines

Post by Goofproof » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:54 pm

Goofproof wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:53 pm
lilly747 wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:33 pm
I ran out of water last night. I never ran out of water on my S9 VPAP. So why not make the water tank capable of holding enough water...stupid design flaw.

Guess I will try turning the temp down. Right now it is on auto.
A five gallon HH tank won't fit in the overhead luggage storage, We have XPAP users trying to travel with 5 lb XPAP's complaining it's too much trouble. I'm waiting until my new XPAP has a 55 inch HD Led T.V. built in with SAT T.V., and A/C! :lol: Jim
Use data to optimize your xPAP treatment!

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palerider
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Re: adding water detection to future cpap/bi-pap machines

Post by palerider » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:03 pm

lilly747 wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:33 pm
I ran out of water last night. I never ran out of water on my S9 VPAP. So why not make the water tank capable of holding enough water...stupid design flaw.
The S9 and Air10 both hold the same amount of water. 380ml.

The vast majority of people never have an issue.
What would be "enough"? it holds over 12 oz, 3/4ths of a pint... how much is "enough" a whole pint? a quart? a gallon?

I suppose they could design it for worst case scenarios, desert dry room conditions, absurdly cold, max setting... and then you'd have a much larger machine that you'd almost never run out of water, unless you were camping in death valley in january, perhaps?

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Re: adding water detection to future cpap/bi-pap machines

Post by USMCVet » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:03 pm

Goofproof wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:53 pm
lilly747 wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:33 pm
I ran out of water last night. I never ran out of water on my S9 VPAP. So why not make the water tank capable of holding enough water...stupid design flaw.

Guess I will try turning the temp down. Right now it is on auto.
A five gallon HH tank won't fit in the overhead luggage storage, We have XPAP users trying to travel with 5 lb XPAP's complaining it's too much trouble. I'm waiting untill my new XPAP has a 55 inck HD Led T.V. built in with SAT T.V., and A/C! :lol: Jim
Ok what about a port on the side of machine with a cap that has lanyard so you can't lose it. When at home you can have a 5 gallon or less humidifier tank that connects to CPAP via hose to the port. That way it autofills humidifier reservoir. Kind of like they have those dog water bowls where to screw in two liter bottle of water to keep bowl topped off.

Problem solved.... Next problem please lol

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Re: adding water detection to future cpap/bi-pap machines

Post by palerider » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:08 pm

USMCVet wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:03 pm
. wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:53 pm
lilly747 wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:33 pm
I ran out of water last night. I never ran out of water on my S9 VPAP. So why not make the water tank capable of holding enough water...stupid design flaw.

Guess I will try turning the temp down. Right now it is on auto.
A five gallon HH tank won't fit in the overhead luggage storage, We have XPAP users trying to travel with 5 lb XPAP's complaining it's too much trouble. I'm waiting untill my new XPAP has a 55 inck HD Led T.V. built in with SAT T.V., and A/C! :lol: Jim
Ok what about a port on the side of machine with a cap that has lanyard so you can't lose it. When at home you can have a 5 gallon or less humidifier tank that connects to CPAP via hose to the port. That way it autofills humidifier reservoir. Kind of like they have those dog water bowls where to screw in two liter bottle of water to keep bowl topped off.

Problem solved.... Next problem please lol
I've thought about that, but have to wonder how that would work with the varying air pressure that the humidifier tank experiences... I'd thik you'd have water bouncing back and forth though the tube, and then gushing in when the machine shut off.

Not saying it couldn't be done, but it's probably more complicated than the static pressure that a dog bowl experiences.

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Re: adding water detection to future cpap/bi-pap machines

Post by USMCVet » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:27 pm

palerider wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:08 pm
USMCVet wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:03 pm
. wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:53 pm
lilly747 wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:33 pm
I ran out of water last night. I never ran out of water on my S9 VPAP. So why not make the water tank capable of holding enough water...stupid design flaw.

Guess I will try turning the temp down. Right now it is on auto.
A five gallon HH tank won't fit in the overhead luggage storage, We have XPAP users trying to travel with 5 lb XPAP's complaining it's too much trouble. I'm waiting untill my new XPAP has a 55 inck HD Led T.V. built in with SAT T.V., and A/C! :lol: Jim
Ok what about a port on the side of machine with a cap that has lanyard so you can't lose it. When at home you can have a 5 gallon or less humidifier tank that connects to CPAP via hose to the port. That way it autofills humidifier reservoir. Kind of like they have those dog water bowls where to screw in two liter bottle of water to keep bowl topped off.

Problem solved.... Next problem please lol
I've thought about that, but have to wonder how that would work with the varying air pressure that the humidifier tank experiences... I'd thik you'd have water bouncing back and forth though the tube, and then gushing in when the machine shut off.

Not saying it couldn't be done, but it's probably more complicated than the static pressure that a dog bowl experiences.
I would totally be will to experiment if someone wanted to send me a total brick machine they didn't care about.

Here is my hypothesis though....

If you have a large enough reservoir of water that flows into the CPAP reservoir the weight of the incoming water should counteract air pressure in machine. Also I would have the port on CPAP have hose that goes directly to bottom of reservoir. My thought is that the pressure of air in machine would be evenly distributed over water surface again lessening impact of air pressure.

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Re: adding water detection to future cpap/bi-pap machines

Post by lilly747 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:34 pm

palerider wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:08 pm
USMCVet wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:03 pm
. wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:53 pm
lilly747 wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:33 pm
I ran out of water last night. I never ran out of water on my S9 VPAP. So why not make the water tank capable of holding enough water...stupid design flaw.

Guess I will try turning the temp down. Right now it is on auto.
A five gallon HH tank won't fit in the overhead luggage storage, We have XPAP users trying to travel with 5 lb XPAP's complaining it's too much trouble. I'm waiting untill my new XPAP has a 55 inck HD Led T.V. built in with SAT T.V., and A/C! :lol: Jim
Ok what about a port on the side of machine with a cap that has lanyard so you can't lose it. When at home you can have a 5 gallon or less humidifier tank that connects to CPAP via hose to the port. That way it autofills humidifier reservoir. Kind of like they have those dog water bowls where to screw in two liter bottle of water to keep bowl topped off.

Problem solved.... Next problem please lol
I've thought about that, but have to wonder how that would work with the varying air pressure that the humidifier tank experiences... I'd thik you'd have water bouncing back and forth though the tube, and then gushing in when the machine shut off.

Not saying it couldn't be done, but it's probably more complicated than the static pressure that a dog bowl experiences.
I'm going to vote for the auto-fill---I don't care if the varying pressure is a problem.......the engineers can do their job and figure it out :roll: :roll:

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Re: adding water detection to future cpap/bi-pap machines

Post by palerider » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:50 pm

USMCVet wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:27 pm
If you have a large enough reservoir of water that flows into the CPAP reservoir the weight of the incoming water should counteract air pressure in machine. Also I would have the port on CPAP have hose that goes directly to bottom of reservoir. My thought is that the pressure of air in machine would be evenly distributed over water surface again lessening impact of air pressure.
That's not really how it works. 10cm water pressure is 10cm water pressure... it's enough pressure to push water 10cm up a tube.

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Re: adding water detection to future cpap/bi-pap machines

Post by USMCVet » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:09 am

palerider wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:50 pm
USMCVet wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:27 pm
If you have a large enough reservoir of water that flows into the CPAP reservoir the weight of the incoming water should counteract air pressure in machine. Also I would have the port on CPAP have hose that goes directly to bottom of reservoir. My thought is that the pressure of air in machine would be evenly distributed over water surface again lessening impact of air pressure.
That's not really how it works. 10cm water pressure is 10cm water pressure... it's enough pressure to push water 10cm up a tube.
I will admit I have not researched a ton and doubt there is specific information regarding what we are talking about online.

Please correct me if I am wrong because again I admit I have not researched this in depth.

How does one confirm a CPAP pressure? With a manometer I have read. Please check out this link. https://www.sensorsmag.com/components/manometer-basics

My assumptions to my hypothesis is that a basic manometer is a U shaped instrument that is symmetrical in shape and therefore weight of water on each side. Because of this you can measure pressure in distance that water rises on other side.

Since we are talking a standard CPAP reservoir vs a much larger reservoir the same mechanics aren't in play.

That said the larger the supplemental reservoir the less impact the air pressure in CPAP has.

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Re: adding water detection to future cpap/bi-pap machines

Post by palerider » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:29 am

USMCVet wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:09 am
\Since we are talking a standard CPAP reservoir vs a much larger reservoir the same mechanics aren't in play.
Why not? what mechanics would be in play in that circumstance?

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Re: adding water detection to future cpap/bi-pap machines

Post by USMCVet » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:48 am

palerider wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:29 am
USMCVet wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:09 am
\Since we are talking a standard CPAP reservoir vs a much larger reservoir the same mechanics aren't in play.
Why not? what mechanics would be in play in that circumstance?
Again I admit I did not research my response and I am responsive to data to the otherwise .

So we have a basic manometer which is U shaped and symmetrical. We fill it with water. At this time I see it like a scale. You have equal atmospheric pressure on either side because diameter of tubing is the same which means the amount of water on each side is the same. So both sides being equal you can apply a steady pressure to either side and get the same result. However if you have the same tubing on either side but a lot more water on one side which equals more weight for atmospheric pressure to fight you won't get the same result if you add the atmospheric pressure to either side.

If you have a lot more pressure on one side (side with more water which weighs more then air) then the other then the scales aren't equal.

I'm very confident in my idea. What I don't know with a lot of certainty of how much water weight it takes to counter act certain air pressures in CPAP.

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