OT: My RFA experience for back/pelvic pain issues

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OT: My RFA experience for back/pelvic pain issues

Post by Pugsy » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:50 am

Been meaning to do this thread because some others who have pain issues have requested it.
Last Wed...one week ago tomorrow I had the RFA thing done on my lumbar spine.
This procedure for those who don't know what I am talking about.

https://mayfieldclinic.com/pe-rf_ablation.htm

https://www.webmd.com/arthritis/radiofr ... ablation#1

There's a lot of history that goes along with my situation that I won't go into right now but the short version is just a really screwed up lower back and pelvis stemming primarily from a bad auto accident injury some years back where a bunch of stuff got crushed, broken and and in general f....d up. It is what it is.
The spine became unstable...and I now also have scoliosis added in besides the arthritis crap.

Couple of years ago had cortisone injections in the SI joints...they helped a lot for about 6 to 8 months....then last summer had them repeated and no relief at all...so we talked about RFA. Long road to get to this point.
Can't take NSAIDs due to GI issues....and they don't really help anyway.
Even the good stuff...opiates...doesn't really do much in terms of pain relief...takes the edge off sometimes and I can't take too much of it because it causes nausea and vomiting. I wouldn't make a good drug addict. :lol: I don't handle nausea well at all. Besides opiates don't get rid of the cause of the pain...they just make you not care that you hurt.

So what they did last Wed was a local lidocaine for needle placement...burning of the sensory nerves in 8 facets from L2 down to S1...4 on each side....then they inject a little cortisone to help with inflammation secondary to the trauma of the procedure.
They tell you not to expect much for up to 6 weeks or so because everyone heals differently and responds differently.
I couldn't have it done in the actual SI joint because that is now considered an experimental procedure (wasn't always the case) and unfortunately the SI joints are probably a major factor in my pain issues. I don't have much in the way of SI joints due to all the trauma that happened to the pelvis some years ago....essentially crushed the pelvis and dislocated the joints and broke my back in the process.

It's too soon to expect much and I was told to expect things to get worse before it got better and yesterday it did...big time get worse.
The cortisone finally wore off. :lol: :lol: I could tell it was gone because I was no longer hungry as a horse no matter how much I ate.
Bad way to be when on a diet.
I think it was wearing off by Sunday....was having increased pain in the left lumbar area where all the scoliosis is at its worst.
By yesterday I could barely walk...it was take a step...have pain...rest till the pain subsided and then take another step...rest, etc.
Not a good day at all.

And I have been a good girl...was told to take it easy and under no circumstances go doing stuff I shouldn't be doing just because I maybe felt a little better because I was feeling better because of the cortisone and it would wear off...and it did.

I now just need to give it time (hard for me since patience is not one of my virtues) and take care of myself.
Yesterday's pain is MUCH reduced today...so that's a plus. I can manage it well enough at this level.

It's just too soon to really know what the final result will be....I was told don't even think about evaluating much until 2 weeks post procedure and then take it with a grain of salt.

One of the reasons I elected to have this procedure...my sleep is crap because of the pain. Numerous awakenings and arousals from the pain...and when I don't sleep good I don't feel good which in turn makes it even harder to manage the pain. Nasty cycle.

One plus I have noticed so far....normally I can't just lay in bed for very long and try to get more sleep when I know I haven't had enough sleep. My back would hurt like hell...felt like I was laying on a bed of nails.
The bed of nails is gone at least for right now. I can now at least lay down and sleep in any position without the bed of nails being present. That alone is a big plus and gives me a reason to be optimistic that I am going to get some relief from my issues.
I know I won't be pain free...just not going to happen but if I can reduce the level of pain and start doing stuff that I need and want to do and sleep better...then I can count that as a win.

Chronic pain is fatiguing...no matter what level of pain a person has. You just get so tired of hurting that you have zero energy to do anything and actually when we have arthritis type of issues we need to do stuff or the arthritis just gets worse. Another nasty cycle.
Then it screws up your sleep and you add another level to the fatigue from poor sleep quality.
I used to get 7 to 8 hours of decent enough sleep...now I am doing good to get 5 hours and that's simply not enough especially when I have a gazillion pain related arousals in those 5 hours. Last night I managed to get about 6 hours....better than 5 hours and I haven't had a chance to look at the flow rate to evaluate arousals. The AHI I know will be low and I don't really watch it....I watch the flow rate and look for arousal breathing to evaluate my overall sleep quality. Arousals are a killer in terms of my sleep quality...even if I got 10 hours of sleep it doesn't mean I will feel better until I get the arousal numbers down to a more manageable level.

All goes back to what I have said for years...good numbers don't mean squat if your sleep quality is in the toilet because of arousals from any reason. Mine happen to be from pain but people can have arousals from anything and they just screw with sleep quality and we have to have good sleep quality for the restorative powers of sleep to work their magic.

We know we can't do much about the SI joint stuff...we are just hoping that the RFA will help reduce the lumbar issues so that the SI issues are more manageable and not so debilitating. Hoping that breaking the circuit with the nerve will help.

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Re: OT: My RFA experience for back/pelvic pain issues

Post by Miss Emerita » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:04 am

Many, many thanks for sharing this information, Pugsy, and heartfelt best wishes for fast and amazing pain relief!
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Re: OT: My RFA experience for back/pelvic pain issues

Post by LSAT » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:54 pm

Pugsy...there is always Cannabis....https://keytocannabis.com/blogs/cannabi ... management

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Re: OT: My RFA experience for back/pelvic pain issues

Post by Pugsy » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:07 pm

LSAT wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:54 pm
Pugsy...there is always Cannabis....https://keytocannabis.com/blogs/cannabi ... management
I don't like how it makes me feel. Now granted I haven't had much experience with it and I might try it again later when I can experiment more with dosage but I did try it when in Vegas 2017....got the lowest dose possible and it was an awful experience.
Doubled my pulse rate...didn't help with sleep...felt like crap...made me sick to my stomach and that's with 4 puffs off the smallest weed available. :lol:
Did not get a chance to try the edibles...the "pharmacy" I went to didn't have any and time was short so didn't go to another store.
This past trip I had more time but I knew I was having this procedure and I wanted nothing in my system to cloud the results. So didn't even consider another whacky weed experiment.

I have also tried just the hemp oil stuff...that is legal in Missouri...way too expensive and what little I did try that I could afford...no help at all.

We now have legal medical whacky weed in Missouri...just got approved this past Nov but it's going to be a year before it's readily available.
I might revisit it later once it's available (if I need to) and I have more time to play with dosage and stuff.

Besides....I would still rather eliminate the pain than to dope myself up so that I don't care if I hurt or not.
I don't like not being in total control of my mind...I don't like being drunk...I don't like being doped up from opiates...that sort of thing.
And there was nothing about the whacky weed experiment that I did do that was pleasant at all. :lol: :lol:
I was SOOOOOOO disappointed. :lol:

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Re: OT: My RFA experience for back/pelvic pain issues

Post by jnk... » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:07 pm

That info is a very valuable addition to this forum. I believe it will help a lot of people with sleep issues. Thank you very much for sharing it. I hope you get some much-needed and much-deserved relief.
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Re: OT: My RFA experience for back/pelvic pain issues

Post by chunkyfrog » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:02 pm

Thank you for your valuable information, and I hope it works at least as well as hoped.

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Re: OT: My RFA experience for back/pelvic pain issues

Post by Mark55 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:44 pm

I'm glad to read that it seems possible you might get some relief from this procedure,....I certainly hope so. My situation is very similar to yours minus the broken bones from a car accident.

I've tried the hemp oil stuff as well with zero results, so don't feel alone there. I can't stand the idea of smoking anything, and don't want to be doped up either, so I have avoided the other delivery means of wacky weed, as well as opiates so far.

Like you, I initially got some relief from cortisone injections (LESI), but after having about half a dozen, they ceased to do anything for me for longer than a day or two. By this time the dose in the injection was large enough that it was starting to cause side effects as well, like making me agitated and amping me up. I have not had any injections since, and only take low dose oral prednisone when really needed.

Really hope you feel better soon, and continue to report back here as your recovery advances! :wink:

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Re: OT: My RFA experience for back/pelvic pain issues

Post by JayDee » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:11 am

I can also relate - chronic & classic L4/L5 compression since the early 90's. I've tried chiropractic adjustments, neuro-muscular massage, TENs. The steroid cocktails did about as much as giving me a glass of water. After those, I sort of accepted the fact that my back was shot and I would just have to learn how to live with it - and I have, for the most part. But, there are days when it reminds me who's boss.

I'd heard of RFA, but don't know anyone who's had it done. It will be interesting to see your results.

Best of luck with it!
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Re: OT: My RFA experience for back/pelvic pain issues

Post by Pugsy » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:44 am

Yesterday was a "good" day....and today looks promising because I got nearly 8 hours of sleep....and it was decent sleep for me.
I didn't do anything extra to maybe mess up things...no yard work or extra cleaning or painting the ceiling kind of stuff. I am being "good" about that and just taking it easy. Minimal low back discomfort and mainly seems to be muscle related as opposed to joint related. Those of you who experience this stuff...you know the difference.

Haven't looked at the flow rate for arousals yet but yesterday when I looked at the 6 1/2 hours or so...minimal arousals which means decent quality (for me anyway) of sleep. Saw maybe a half a dozen or so but they were small and brief.

I did cheat last night and took about 3 mg of Ambien...for a little extra help along with my usual pain pill. It's something I might do once a month when I want to see just how much it helps me sleep more solidly. I don't like Ambien...makes me a bit groggy in the morning but 3 mg doesn't seem to cause much hangover effect.
Otherwise I am not changing my usual routine. I still take my usual pain pill at bed time....later on in the experiment I will omit it.
Before RFA...it just barely took the edge off anyway. If the pain pill had helped much I wouldn't have needed the RFA thing. :lol:

Laying in bed....this morning...minimal discomfort....the bed of nails is still gone which is a huge plus. Laying on my back no longer involves a bunch of knives sticking in my back....huge plus for me. I can actually turn over in bed without wishing I had a grab bar to help me out. Before I would hurt so bad that I couldn't move...but I needed to move to not hurt.

I was really on the fence about having this procedure for several reasons but finally got off the fence when I came to the realization that without it I know how bad things are and how crappy I feel and how crappy I sleep.
I didn't want to continue that way and just decided that if there was any chance it might help then I was willing to take it.
For me any improvement is better than no improvement....pretty simple.
So far enough improvement to count it a success...do I want more...sure I do...I am greedy but the better sleep alone is worth it to me if I really sit down and examine the results.
Without decent quality sleep I have zero chance of having many "good" days.

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Re: OT: My RFA experience for back/pelvic pain issues

Post by jnk... » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:55 am

For the record, I admire your wisdom in how you evaluate such matters and your skill in communicating your experience for the benefit of others.

End of my eye-roll-inducing sappiness.

Well, for now, at least.
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Re: OT: My RFA experience for back/pelvic pain issues

Post by babydinosnoreless » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:38 pm

I am glad to hear that you are doing well. Am sitting here in the waiting room while my husband has his procedure done. Its nerve wracking. I am not good at waiting.

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Re: OT: My RFA experience for back/pelvic pain issues

Post by Pugsy » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:47 pm

Cynmatthes wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:38 pm
I am glad to hear that you are doing well. Am sitting here in the waiting room while my husband has his procedure done. Its nerve wracking. I am not good at waiting.
Crossing my fingers for him.

I can already tell I am going to have some good days and not so good days for a lot of reasons but hey...some good days is better than no good days. :lol: :lol:

Cold, damp, windy, rainy etc...has always made my back stuff worse. We went from the 60s to below freezing the last 3 days.
Winch chill is 24 right now...brrr...and I feel it in my bones. Turned off really cold last night.

I may not have any real good gauges for long term evaluations until spring and it warms up and dries up consistently.

Didn't sleep well last night but had nothing to do with pain...major insomnia due to worrying about my mom. That's another long story.
No time right now...gotta go get cleaned up and head to the hospital and see my mom.

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Re: OT: My RFA experience for back/pelvic pain issues

Post by raisedfist » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:53 pm

It looks like they say this procedure lasts anywhere from 9 months to 2 years. Does the insurance approve this each time, after the first time?

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Re: OT: My RFA experience for back/pelvic pain issues

Post by Pugsy » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:18 pm

raisedfist wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:53 pm
It looks like they say this procedure lasts anywhere from 9 months to 2 years. Does the insurance approve this each time, after the first time?
Beats me....I would assume so. I am more concerned about today. :lol: :lol: :lol: I never saw anything mentioned that would restrict the number of times a person could have it done and have it covered by insurance. I would assume medical need per the doctor would be enough.

I know one woman...had it done...amazing results for 4 years until she fell and messed things up again...just had it done the second time 2 weeks before I had mine done. She told me if she had not fell (long story there but fell with a little dog in her hands and was more concerned about the dog than herself...you know how that goes) she wouldn't have even needed it again.

It all depends on the cause of the problem in the first place and if it does help...do the nerves regenerate enough to cause a problem again...and/or do we do something stupid and cause some different nerves to need zapping. :lol: Like falling with a dog and paying more attention to the dog than how we fall. She ended up flat on her back on the concrete with the dog on her belly and protected.
It's just the way we mommies are for our fur babies. I totally would have done the same thing. She slipped on a little patch of ice.

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Re: OT: My RFA experience for back/pelvic pain issues

Post by raisedfist » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:06 pm

Pugsy wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:18 pm
raisedfist wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:53 pm
It looks like they say this procedure lasts anywhere from 9 months to 2 years. Does the insurance approve this each time, after the first time?
Beats me....I would assume so. I am more concerned about today. :lol: :lol: :lol: I never saw anything mentioned that would restrict the number of times a person could have it done and have it covered by insurance. I would assume medical need per the doctor would be enough.

I know one woman...had it done...amazing results for 4 years until she fell and messed things up again...just had it done the second time 2 weeks before I had mine done. She told me if she had not fell (long story there but fell with a little dog in her hands and was more concerned about the dog than herself...you know how that goes) she wouldn't have even needed it again.

It all depends on the cause of the problem in the first place and if it does help...do the nerves regenerate enough to cause a problem again...and/or do we do something stupid and cause some different nerves to need zapping. :lol: Like falling with a dog and paying more attention to the dog than how we fall. She ended up flat on her back on the concrete with the dog on her belly and protected.
It's just the way we mommies are for our fur babies. I totally would have done the same thing. She slipped on a little patch of ice.
Oh wow that is some bad luck on her part but I totally understand that instinct...animals are amazing. I hope the positive effects are plentiful and lasting :mrgreen:. And that you watch your step.

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