Machine makes me unable to inhale... Does this happen to anyone?

[dewfend]

Hi everyone,

It may sound very strange, but I believe it is true, it is happening in my body.

Now my problem is even when I am taking nap during the day without machine, the respiratory movement will become weak and disappear
Or I will realize I just stopped breathing by myself, or my heart will beat irregularly to wake up me, so I will start breathing again.
During the night I am using Resmed lumis 150 with iVAPS mode (my AHI around 30, half CSA, half OSA).

I think its because the machine help me breathe and make my own respiratory movement unnecessary so my brain will "forget" sending signal to my body.
The more I use the machine, my brain becomes less able to send signal to the body to breathe. Now I am really struggling in my heart problem, so many times of irregular beating makes it very tired, now I can't go to theatre, the big sound makes me feel uncomfortable. And my heart is like being hold tight by hand.

2014: AHI 20-30, pure OSA, start use resmed S9 APAP mode;
2015: Lose weight, continue using machine, starts feeling uncomfortable about the heart.
2016: CSA detected. start use of resmed S10, biPAP
2017: start use of dental device to enlarge the pharyngeal cavity，stop use of machine
2018-2020: sometimes use detal device, sometimes use machine.
2021 April: Did UPPP operation, before operation AHI more than 50, after operation AHI more than 30 (half OSA, half CSA)
2021 August: start use of resmed lumis 150 with iVAPS mode. At the beginning I feel comfortable, but after about 10 days I start feeling uncomfortable about my heart.
2021 September: stop use of machine, start use of dental device.

[Pugsy]

You need to be having a direct discussion with your doctors about your thoughts because your reasoning is simply wrong.
The machine use isn't causing the central apneas because it is teaching the brain to not breathe. The brain not sending the signals to breathe are from an imbalance of gasses in your body specifically not enough carbon dioxide in the body.
Carbon dioxide is what the brain looks for to help it know if it needs to send the "breathe" signals.

If you need iVaps and the Lumis for central apnea and you go to a dental device for apnea management that is going to be a total disaster. This line of thinking is extremely dangerous.

Talk to your doctor ASAP.

[palerider]

It may sound very strange, but I believe it is true, it is happening in my body.

"I believe it is true" usually means that it's not.

Now my problem is even when I am taking nap during the day without machine, the respiratory movement will become weak and disappear
Or I will realize I just stopped breathing by myself, or my heart will beat irregularly to wake up me, so I will start breathing again.
During the night I am using Resmed lumis 150 with iVAPS mode (my AHI around 30, half CSA, half OSA).

You stop breathing because you have central and obstructive apnea, that's why you have a ventilator.

I think its because the machine help me breathe and make my own respiratory movement unnecessary so my brain will "forget" sending signal to my body.

No, it's because you have central and obstructive apnea.

The more I use the machine, my brain becomes less able to send signal to the body to breathe.

It does not work that way.

2021 September: stop use of machine, start use of dental device.

Worst thing you could have done, short of just not using the machine at all, like when you're napping without it.

[Matt00926]

Maybe I'm missing something, but the ASV seems more appropriate here.

[palerider]

Maybe I'm missing something,

Yes.

but the ASV seems more appropriate here.

Since the iVAPS is a rare machine, it's not surprising you don't know what it does.

[Respirator99]

IVAPs is a standard feature of the Lumis 150 (similar to Aircurve 10 ST): https://www.resmed.com.au/healthcare-pr ... 50-vpap-st

However I really wonder if it's appropriate for you. Despite a lot of facts, you haven't given us much actionable information, but my educated guess is that you started with mixed apnea, started using a CPAP (which didn't help, of course) then graduated to the bilevel. The heart issues you describe sound very familiar - arrhythmia (EVC) is a known consequence of sleep apnea - and in my personal experience can disappear once the apnea is properly treated. However, with any heart-related issues, it's best to take a precautionary approach and rule out anything more serious. My recommendations would be:

1. See your doctor ASAP. Get referred to a cardiologist for an ECG and other tests to rule out any heart conditions other than EVC.

2. Use your machine whenever you sleep, including afternoon naps;

3. Talk to your doctor about a trial on an ASV rather than the Lumis 150. The ASV is specifically designed to treat central apnea - the Lumis is not.

4. Throw away the dental appliance - it will not help central apnea. And don't submit yourself to any further surgery - I'm sorry to say you endured a lot of pain for nothing.

[dewfend]

Hello everyone,

Thank you all for your sharing.

I am Chinese living in China, many things are different here:

1) There is no ASV machine on sale here, as told by the sales agent of Resmed. And I dont want to use other brands. ASV mode has flexible PS, on ivaps if we set fixed EPAP, it is same as ASV, said by the sales agent.
2) I visited more than ten doctors from ENT (ear, nose and throat), dental, respiratory. I haven't found any hospital able to do calibration for my mixed apnea, everybody only able to do CPAP calibration... The parameter setting I am doing with the sales of machine.... I know it is ridicilous

@Pugsy: is it possible that use of machine will make level of carbon dioxide stay low and brain doesn't send signal?

@Palerider: Actually if I use only dental appliance, I feel better the second day when I wake up.

@Respirator99: With reference to the heart condition, I did all related exams ECG, holter, color doppler, coronary angiography. Before UPPP operation, in the test of color doppler, the doctor said my heart has tiredness. All others are OK.
I am seeing cardiologist who asked me to test my blood pressure/heart rate 3 times every day, for 2 weeks. On 29th Sep I will visit her again with the two week report.

[dewfend]

Well I would like to ask does such heart discomfort related to use of machine, or related to apnea, happen?

[Julie]

Blood pressure is usually lowered by using Cpap, but it is hard to say if it is caused by apnea, or apnea alone, or if it is the only heart problem you have - your doctor can tell you that, but Cpap would not be the cause of it of course.

[ChicagoGranny]

related to apnea

Yes. Untreated apnea is very bad for the heart.

Well I would like to ask does such heart discomfort related to use of machine

Some people report chest pain due to the pressure in the lungs.

[chunkyfrog]

Anxiety attack?
Been there--so embarrassing . . .

[dewfend]

Hello everyone,
I started using the machine following your suggestion, during the use I stopped about 1 hour, I don't remember why.
The heart still feel uncomfortable when I wake up. blood pressure OK

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[dewfend]

This is data of 22nd Sep, I am not expert on reading this, can anyone tell me is this good or bad? (I only understand AHI 8.13)

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[dewfend]

Hello everyone,
I explored the discussions in this forum and yesterday I avoided sleeping on my back, today I feel better of my heart! Happy life is coming back:)

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The interesting part is the steady Resp Rate/Tidal Volume/Minute Vent./Insp. Time, which are in line with the setting. I don't see such sync in the data of previous days.
I think in this period I was fully supported by machine and this gave me good rest.

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How do you guys think? Any comments are appreciated.

My setting:
Va target: 4.1L/min
Resp Rate: 13/min
Max EPAP: 6.0
Min EPAP: 3.0
Ti Min: 1.1S
Ti Max: 2.0S

[Matt00926]

Maybe I'm missing something,

Yes.

but the ASV seems more appropriate here.

Since the iVAPS is a rare machine, it's not surprising you don't know what it does.

Well, I do know what it does. Nowhere in the OP does he/she discuss respiratory insufficiency, from my reading anyway. ResMed states CSA treatments depends on the underlying cause, and from there you choose ASV or iVAPS. If the problem is a signal from the brain --> ASV. If the problem is muscle weakness/respiratory disease --> iVAPS. Can't breathe vs won't breathe/no signal to breathe from the brain are two different things. CSA + OSA = ASV unless there is also "profound" hypoventilation.