Husband says I'm choking? MyAir score 98? Sleepyhead Sat 4/14

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
happycube
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Re: Husband says I'm choking? MyAir score 98? Sleepyhead Thur 4/12

Post by happycube » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:57 am

On my S10 autoset the filter selector option is for the antibacterial filter which reduces airflow, so the machine compensates by increasing pressure. I made the mistake of putting the setting on the first night I used the machine...

pugdreams
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Re: Husband says I'm choking? MyAir score 98? Sleepyhead Thur 4/12

Post by pugdreams » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:51 am

Oh, Pugsy. You won't be happy to see this big gap - last night was tough. I decided I'd try the @!%! dreamwear full face once more before I return it. As you can see it leaks like CRAZY - and I mean it makes BIG bubbling sounds that come out over my cheeks. It's awful. Didn't help that I was VERY congested last night (the reason I wanted to try it one more time). I gave up, fell asleep, woke up and put on the nasal mask. Even that felt very uncomfortable last night...because only one nostril was clear and I have a deviated septum. Felt a little suffocating. But I did manage to fall asleep with it on.

*why didn't the pressure go up when the leak rate increased?

Funny how even that full face mask looks - except for the massive leaks. Looks like the nasal pillows had a lot more events. Is there an easier-to-use full face mask? I might try a different one when I return the dreamwear.

Kara
screenshot-20180414-074404.png
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prodigyplace
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Re: Husband says I'm choking? MyAir score 98? Sleepyhead Thur 4/12

Post by prodigyplace » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:11 am

pugdreams wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:51 am
Oh, Pugsy. You won't be happy to see this big gap - last night was tough. I decided I'd try the @!%! dreamwear full face once more before I return it. As you can see it leaks like CRAZY - and I mean it makes BIG bubbling sounds that come out over my cheeks. It's awful. Didn't help that I was VERY congested last night (the reason I wanted to try it one more time). I gave up, fell asleep, woke up and put on the nasal mask. Even that felt very uncomfortable last night...because only one nostril was clear and I have a deviated septum. Felt a little suffocating. But I did manage to fall asleep with it on.

*why didn't the pressure go up when the leak rate increased?

Funny how even that full face mask looks - except for the massive leaks. Looks like the nasal pillows had a lot more events. Is there an easier-to-use full face mask? I might try a different one when I return the dreamwear.

Kara

screenshot-20180414-074404.png
Did you remember to change the mask setting on the machine when switching between the full face mask and pillows? I know that changes some of the logic of the computerized machine.

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pugdreams
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Re: Husband says I'm choking? MyAir score 98? Sleepyhead Fri 4/13

Post by pugdreams » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:19 am

yikes. no, i didn't - so the entire night was set to nasal pillows.
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pugdreams
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Re: Husband says I'm choking? MyAir score 98? Sleepyhead Fri 4/13

Post by pugdreams » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:20 am

what the heck is causing the bubbling type sounds from the side of that full face mask? really, really wish I could make that work - but that thing is strapped down TIGHT on my head to reduce that "motorboat" effect. i DO feel ok this morning, though.
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Pugsy
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Re: Husband says I'm choking? MyAir score 98? Sleepyhead Fri 4/13

Post by Pugsy » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:35 am

The mask setting wasn't the cause of the bubbling and stuff. At most it made the leak look a little bigger than it was. It's not why you had difficulties. The entire time I was playing with the DreamWear FFM it was set to nasal pillows.
It affects things a little but not nearly as much as people might think. Main thing...it thinks with nasal pillows that your vent rate should be less so with what it senses with the FFM it thinks too much excess leak and your leak line gets elevated a little.
Not responsible for all your leak line but part. The other thing the setting does is something with mask resistance. I have played with the different settings on the ResMed machines for the different masks and I can't feel any difference and I am trying to feel a difference.

But just in case...change it over to full face and give it a go again. It's okay if you split the night again if you want to. I won't beat you up over it. I have done it myself when trying a mask that I end up just can't stand.

Oh...these new machines won't/don't/can't increase the pressure when there are leaks like you saw.
Leaks big or little....aren't the cause of pressure changes unless the leak is really big (and while yours looked and felt big...it wasn't REALLY big) and then if they do anything with the pressure it's reduce it to try to calm the leak down.
Now your leaks weren't huge...but they did wake you up and annoy you so for that reason we would want to fix them better.
Yeah..it's an ugly leak line but it's not a massively huge leak line and for a new mask so different from what you are using...not unexpected.

It sounds to me like the fit and seal isn't where it needs to be. Something isn't right and it's allowing air to try to escape and creating the bubbling annoyance. Some part of the tension from either the straps or the frame isn't allowing for a good seal.

Did you get and use the fleece side wraps? I found they helped me a lot. I also had to go to the small frame and even the it wasn't quite perfect but it was a heckuva lot better than the medium frame. I have a smallish head...not tiny but not huge...I am not a very big woman...still wear a size 4 wedding ring...small boned.
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Re: Husband says I'm choking? MyAir score 98? Sleepyhead Thur 4/12

Post by palerider » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:10 am

pugdreams wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:51 am
*why didn't the pressure go up when the leak rate increased?

Funny how even that full face mask looks - except for the massive leaks.
To reinforce what Pugsy said, autos don't increase pressure due to leaks... that's a common misconception people have, but it's dead wrong. For one thing, what would be the point? Having more pressure would just make the leak worse! What does happen is the air flow increases to make up for the pressure lost from the leak... but it only increases enough to keep the pressure up where it needs to be... If you'd had truly bad leaks, the machine would *reduce* pressure to try and get the mask to seal. like this:

Image

Now, your leaks weren't bad, in fact there was only a tiny period they were large... (that slim grey line was the only time they went over 24lpm... As far as the machine was concerned, they were ok... the only real problem with them was that they bothered you. (and that is a problem, of course).

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vinhbao
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Re: Husband says I'm choking? MyAir score was 98? Sleepyhead update :)

Post by vinhbao » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:22 am

pugdreams wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:24 pm
No, it was the machine telling me there was no filter, but I know that one is installed (I looked at it). Not sure that really matters. Sure am grateful for all the guidance. :) Kara
I believe that is saying no “AB filter” which, if I’m not mistaken, is an antibacterial filter, which is different from the regular filter you probably have.

mesenteria
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Re: Husband says I'm choking? MyAir score 98? Sleepyhead Fri 4/13

Post by mesenteria » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:19 pm

"...autos don't increase pressure due to leaks... that's a common misconception people have, but it's dead wrong. For one thing, what would be the point? Having more pressure would just make the leak worse! What does happen is the air flow increases to make up for the pressure lost from the leak... but it only increases enough to keep the pressure up where it needs to be... If you'd had truly bad leaks, the machine would *reduce* pressure to try and get the mask to seal..."

This can't be correct. In an open system, which a leak entails, flow rates cannot be increased unless pressure is also increased. Perhaps I misunderstood your explanation...?

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palerider
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Re: Husband says I'm choking? MyAir score 98? Sleepyhead Fri 4/13

Post by palerider » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:50 pm

mesenteria wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:19 pm
"...autos don't increase pressure due to leaks... that's a common misconception people have, but it's dead wrong. For one thing, what would be the point? Having more pressure would just make the leak worse! What does happen is the air flow increases to make up for the pressure lost from the leak... but it only increases enough to keep the pressure up where it needs to be... If you'd had truly bad leaks, the machine would *reduce* pressure to try and get the mask to seal..."

This can't be correct. In an open system, which a leak entails, flow rates cannot be increased unless pressure is also increased. Perhaps I misunderstood your explanation...?
It's correct, your statement " flow rates cannot be increased unless pressure is also increased." is wrong. Confusing pressure and flow is a common misconception.

Pressure is a result of restriction of flow. You can have high pressure with zero flow, as in a can of soda... highly pressurized, but no flow. As soon as there's a leak, the pressure drops, since there's no flow of liquid or gas into the can to maintain the pressure.

There's a constant leak built into all cpap masks. The machine (technically called a flow generator creates a flow of air sufficient to create a pressure buildup due to the restriction of the mask, the machine measures the pressure well over 100 times a second (the frequency varies between manufacturers) and adjusts the flow (via the speed of the fan) to *maintain* the pressure desired.

When there's a variation in the amount of resistance to flow, (as when you inhale and exhale) the machine, sensing the drop of pressure when you inhale, or rise of pressure when you exhale, varies the speed of the fan, to maintain the desired pressure. You can hear this by putting your ear up against an operating cpap while breathing.

A 'leak' is nothing more than an increase in the amount of air vented, which necessitates an increase in the *flow* of air, to make up for that, and thus maintain the *pressure*.

If you don't believe me, buy, or build, a manometer and hook it up... and observe the *pressure* as you breath in and out, and make leaks.

When you take your mask off, the machine ramps up to maximum *flow*, because there's no *pressure*, because there's no resistance to the flow of air.
The kinetic energy of a liquid coming out of an impeller is harnessed by creating a resistance to the flow. The first resistance is created by the pump volute (casing) which catches the liquid and slows it down. When the liquid slows down in the pump casing some of the kinetic energy is converted to pressure energy. It is the resistance to the pump's flow that is read on a pressure gauge attached to the discharge line.

Note!!! A pump does not create pressure, it only creates flow! Pressure is a measurement of the resistance to flow.
-- http://www.pricepump.com/pumpschool/psles.html

also: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/pumps-do ... ost-cfphs/

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mesenteria
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Re: Husband says I'm choking? MyAir score 98? Sleepyhead Fri 4/13

Post by mesenteria » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:23 pm

I actually got that, and thank you for the explanation. So, the flow must increase, but the idea is to maintain the pressure setting, so the machine merely compensates by more throughput. Unless there is more restriction, there could not be a greater pressure, no matter how fleeting. Makes sense. Don't know why I didn't see it sooner. :oops:

Thanks, again.

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Re: Husband says I'm choking? MyAir score 98? Sleepyhead Fri 4/13

Post by palerider » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:35 pm

mesenteria wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:23 pm
I actually got that, and thank you for the explanation. So, the flow must increase, but the idea is to maintain the pressure setting, so the machine merely compensates by more throughput. Unless there is more restriction, there could not be a greater pressure, no matter how fleeting. Makes sense. Don't know why I didn't see it sooner. :oops:

Thanks, again.
Don't feel bad.. like I, and those links said, it's a very common misconception, And, until you're starting to talk about specifics like we are, or you're trying to work on the physical system... it's not that important of a distinction.

But in this case, it does quite confuse the issue... since you set the pressure on the machine, and the auto's vary it... and then it all gets confusing if you're not aware that the pump is varying flow, and measuring the resultant pressure against the varying leaks, in order to keep it as close as possible to what's set.

The machines are very complex in their attempts to do this, factoring in the known flow resistance of masks, hoses, filters, humidifiers, and adjusting the flow at the machine to compensate for all those.

I've hooked a differential manometer up at the back of my vpap auto, and at the mask, and seen pressures up to 27cm/H2O at the machine, varying wildly while I was breathing heavily, and a stable 17cm at the mask.... interesting stuff.

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Re: Husband says I'm choking? MyAir score 98? Sleepyhead Fri 4/13

Post by pugdreams » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:04 am

OK. It was EVERYTHING I could do not to cut this Dreamwear full face mask up into a MILLION TINY PIECES last night. But THIS report? THIS is confusing! It's the lowest AHI I've had!

The sounds this mask makes on my face is, I'm sure, audible to those walking by outside. It "motorboats" with EVERY.SINGLE.EXHALE sometimes. If I lie PERFECTLY still on my back, and do NOT move, it's ok. But as soon as I turn (and I'm a side sleeper) or move my head a certain way, it starts to blurble away. (air escapes out the sides). Oh, and if I open my mouth? My cheeks fill up with air like a chipmunk. Is that something you just need to get used to?

I did go to bed late, and don't remember taking it off but I woke up with it off. I have adjusted the headgear, the straps - tighter, looser - played with it a lot. The only thing that keeps me from returning it is the sleepyhead reports. I finally fell asleep on my stomach with my head turned to sort of pin it down to seal it. I'm using the medium size mask, with the medium breathing tube. I DO have the large size mask, and the small tubing, but the small tubing seemed to be too small (seemed close to my eyes).

You mentioned you are "small boned", Pugsley? I'm afraid I've never been described in that way. :) I have a largish head I'd guess, and a round face, medium very thick hair.

I'm going to keep trying this full face mask because with the spring coming here in new england, allergies are going to start up. I can already feel them.

You also asked if I had the fleece pads? Mine didn't come with anything like that.
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Pugsy
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Re: Husband says I'm choking? MyAir score 98? Sleepyhead Sat 4/14

Post by Pugsy » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:16 am

My comment about being small boned...just to explain that different sizes of frames can mean success or failure.
I had a failure with a medium and success with a small...size matters...no matter if you are like me and a small head or a bigger person with a larger head.

The fleece wraps...damn..I thought they were going to be including in all the complete mask packages...I guess I was wrong but if you are already using the small frame and you think it's too small...then adding the fleece wraps will just more likely make things worse.
I was trying to get the sense if your mask was too loose or too tight. Sounds like the frame is too small.

Where did you get the mask package from and how much time do you have left before you can return it and still get your money back?

And yeah...your AHI is to die for good with this mask BUT I hear you screaming that your sleep quality was horrible and you had trouble going to sleep and staying asleep. No AHI is worth crappy sleep.

Now about last night...if you didn't complain of the noise and crappy sleep and saying you woke the neighbors with the motorboat noise...yeah it's a great night on paper. On paper doesn't always equal what we feel though.
How do you feel today after a rather crappy night's sleep but a beautiful AHI?

I am wondering if you need a medium frame instead of the small frame and do you have other sizes of cushion/inserts available to try...or do you have one frame size and one insert size?
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Re: Husband says I'm choking? MyAir score 98? Sleepyhead Sat 4/14

Post by pugdreams » Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:18 pm

I think I have two more weeks? I will call tomorrow and ask. I feel like if ONLY I could get it adjusted just right, I'd be good.

I am currently using the medium frame (breathing tube thingy) and the medium mask.

I tried the Small frame (breathing tube thingy) and the medium mask. The small frame comes very close to my eyes- didn't feel like that was right. The large mask seems just too large (though my nose measures in the "large" area on that paper measurer.

I feel ok today. And I do love that AHI. I mean - it's insanely low - with just one event? Crazy.

What do the pads you have look like? Are they available anywhere or do I have to make them? A pic would be great.

Thanks.
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