Dental devices (DNA appliance, etc) for palatal expansion—reviews & results?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
User avatar
nikkwong
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:11 pm
Contact:

Dental devices (DNA appliance, etc) for palatal expansion—reviews & results?

Post by nikkwong » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:27 pm

Hi!

I've been using the CPAP for several months now and have not had great results, my AHI is usually between 3-4 and I often feel very sleepy during the day. I run Fractals and typically have no energy to work on it, have lost all interest in my hobbies and work activities etc...

I'm interested in dental devices, went to a dentist today, and was quoted on receiving a DNA appliance for ~6k. Everything sounds good. However, internet searches on results/reviews of this or related devices hardly pass my smell test. Most SERPs for the term 'dna appliance reviews' are dentists promoting their own practices, and extensive searches—even through indexes of cpaptalk.com—yield few results on anecdotal evidence promoting/demoting the efficacy of these devices in treating OSA.

With all that has been discussed regarding CPAPs I'm surprised I can't get more broad an overview relating to palatal expansion devices. As a potential treatment for sleep apnea, they seem quite attractive. However, I'd expect far more discussion from patients on the web. There are also tons of options available—ALF (advanced lightweight functional), DNA, homeoblock), Controlled Arch etc, etc. Getting comparisons on the tradeoffs of each has been a complete nonstarter, which has been disappointing.

There is potentially some literature that palatal expansion can help improve OSA (cite), however, systematic reviews (cite) have called those findings into question.

So, I am curious as to whether anyone has had any success with these devices. Thanks!
Last edited by nikkwong on Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:35 pm, edited 5 times in total.

User avatar
Julie
Posts: 19898
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:58 pm

Re: Dental devices (DNA appliance, etc) for palatal expansion—reviews & results?

Post by Julie » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:34 pm

This is a Cpap forum - if we thought other devices were just as good it might be called Apnea Devices forum :D .

User avatar
nikkwong
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:11 pm
Contact:

Re: Dental devices (DNA appliance, etc) for palatal expansion—reviews & results?

Post by nikkwong » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:40 pm

Hi! Thanks for the response. That's definitely true, and I realize that there may be some selection biasing that I'll be exposed to since this is a cpap forum. So, anecdotal evidence discrediting these devices by former patients would be really helpful. Thanks!

User avatar
Pugsy
Posts: 63942
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: Dental devices (DNA appliance, etc) for palatal expansion—reviews & results?

Post by Pugsy » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:10 pm

How about someone just coming here to promote a dental website ?

Now I have to decide what to do about it. Damn. Makes my work harder.
I have a headache. :shock:

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.

User avatar
Goofproof
Posts: 16087
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Central Indiana, USA

Re: Dental devices (DNA appliance, etc) for palatal expansion—reviews & results?

Post by Goofproof » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:11 pm

All you need to know is here, reading is required. If your DNA was better you wouldn't need XPAP, maybe! XPAP use it or lose it to Sleep Apnea. Jim
Use data to optimize your xPAP treatment!

"The art of medicine consists in amusing the patient while nature cures the disease." Voltaire

User avatar
chunkyfrog
Posts: 34378
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Nebraska--I am sworn to keep the secret of this paradise.

Re: Dental devices (DNA appliance, etc) for palatal expansion—reviews & results?

Post by chunkyfrog » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:44 pm

Pugsy wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:10 pm
How about someone just coming here to promote a dental website ?

Now I have to decide what to do about it. Damn. Makes my work harder.
I have a headache. :shock:
I feel for you, Pugs.
Sneaky spam is the hardest, especially when the OP has been busily editing the original post.
A total of 4 times so far.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Airsense 10 Autoset for Her

User avatar
nikkwong
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:11 pm
Contact:

Re: Dental devices (DNA appliance, etc) for palatal expansion—reviews & results?

Post by nikkwong » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:13 pm

chunkyfrog wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:44 pm
Pugsy wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:10 pm
How about someone just coming here to promote a dental website ?

Now I have to decide what to do about it. Damn. Makes my work harder.
I have a headache. :shock:
I feel for you, Pugs.
Sneaky spam is the hardest, especially when the OP has been busily editing the original post.
A total of 4 times so far.
Disappointed that the request to receive actual advice would be perceived that way. My edits were attempts to make sure that all the relevant info would be included, as most people would only read the OP. Also not sure why a clinic would secretly be trying to promote themselves when they can only serve a local audience, which, probably wouldn't lead to any business as this forum serves a global audience. You can google my username and you will quickly see that I am not affiliated with any ortho/dentist/etc.

IF anyone has actually dealt with or has any experience with the questions I've posed, I would still love to get some advice/discussions going. I think it's a shame that people seeking palatal expansion for treating their sleep apnea don't have much empirical evidence to see if it has/hasn't worked for others, and I'm still unsure whether or not to pursue treatment.

User avatar
nikkwong
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:11 pm
Contact:

Re: Dental devices (DNA appliance, etc) for palatal expansion—reviews & results?

Post by nikkwong » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:16 pm

Goofproof wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:11 pm
All you need to know is here, reading is required. If your DNA was better you wouldn't need XPAP, maybe! XPAP use it or lose it to Sleep Apnea. Jim
Thank you. I have been struggling with the APAP since sept of 2017. I still sleep ~10 hours a day and my sleep is very non restorative—might just be PAP intolerant. Have tried every PAP setting configuration permutation under the sun. Can't work, docs are not helping, really desperate and simply looking for alternative solutions.

User avatar
Pugsy
Posts: 63942
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: Dental devices (DNA appliance, etc) for palatal expansion—reviews & results?

Post by Pugsy » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:30 pm

nikkwong wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:13 pm
Also not sure why a clinic would secretly be trying to promote themselves
Well they do it all the time...all sorts of dental websites. Usually they are blocked before they ever make it to the main forum.
I used to average one a night...now maybe one every week or so.
Why? Beats me but they do it and it's not allowed and as much as I want to believe you...I don't know you from Adam and your first post here is this.

If you are legit....you had the unfortunate luck of picking a way of presenting stuff that smacks us in the face like past spammers.
So you get to carry some of their bad baggage. Sorry but that's just the way it is.

The links to the educational references....fine.
The link to the dental website...has to go. You can edit it or I will. Your choice.
If any of the forum members want to research it...I am pretty sure they can go find it without you shoving it in their face.
One of the benefits of a long time post history...you get a little more leeway with the links.
Unfortunately you don't have a post history yet.
Membership date doesn't count.
I just blocked a spammer the other day relying on an old account to post his links for Nike shoes and another for cell phones.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.

User avatar
nikkwong
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:11 pm
Contact:

Re: Dental devices (DNA appliance, etc) for palatal expansion—reviews & results?

Post by nikkwong » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:35 pm

Pugsy wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:30 pm
nikkwong wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:13 pm
Also not sure why a clinic would secretly be trying to promote themselves
Well they do it all the time...all sorts of dental websites. Usually they are blocked before they ever make it to the main forum.
I used to average one a night...now maybe one every week or so.
Why? Beats me but they do it and it's not allowed and as much as I want to believe you...I don't know you from Adam and your first post here is this.

If you are legit....you had the unfortunate luck of picking a way of presenting stuff that smacks us in the face like past spammers.
So you get to carry some of their bad baggage. Sorry but that's just the way it is.

The links to the educational references....fine.
The link to the dental website...has to go. You can edit it or I will. Your choice.
If any of the forum members want to research it...I am pretty sure they can go find it without you shoving it in their face.
One of the benefits of a long time post history...you get a little more leeway with the links.
Unfortunately you don't have a post history yet.
Membership date doesn't count.
I just blocked a spammer the other day relying on an old account to post his links for Nike shoes and another for cell phones.
Thanks. Edited.

User avatar
Pugsy
Posts: 63942
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: Dental devices (DNA appliance, etc) for palatal expansion—reviews & results?

Post by Pugsy » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:53 pm

Thank you. I appreciate it.
Now continue on with your discussion and I will go mind my business elsewhere.

We don't have many forum members here using cpap that opted for dental appliance or surgery in the past unless whatever they did failed.
If someone isn't using a cpap machine because they got their problem fixed by something else....I guarantee you that they won't be hanging around here.

So your pool of potential people looking at dental appliances or surgery...is going to be very limited here.
You won't find many people with actual experience other than whatever they did failed and here they are on cpap.
This is a cpap help forum...that's what we do here and it's because we don't want to try the other stuff.
I have been on cpap for coming on 9 years...I have zero desire to have any surgery or wear any dental device to try to alter my airway or facial structure. It's simply too easy to just slap the mask on and go to sleep.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.

User avatar
chunkyfrog
Posts: 34378
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Nebraska--I am sworn to keep the secret of this paradise.

Re: Dental devices (DNA appliance, etc) for palatal expansion—reviews & results?

Post by chunkyfrog » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:30 pm

Sorry if I misinterpreted your intent;
but the fact remains that cpap is still your best bet.
You already know you can use it.
Now stick around, use the software, and folks here can help you dial in your treatment.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Airsense 10 Autoset for Her

User avatar
nikkwong
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:11 pm
Contact:

Re: Dental devices (DNA appliance, etc) for palatal expansion—reviews & results?

Post by nikkwong » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:04 pm

chunkyfrog wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:30 pm
Sorry if I misinterpreted your intent;
but the fact remains that cpap is still your best bet.
You already know you can use it.
Now stick around, use the software, and folks here can help you dial in your treatment.
Maybe you can use it, but that doesn't mean everyone is going to get good results with it, and a lot of people continue to suffer even while adhering to CPAP treatment. Sleep apnea has ruined my life, and I have continued to fail to find relief anywhere. I'm not sure if people here are knocking palatal expansion devices just for the sake of knocking them—but, as stated earlier, there is an inherent selection bias in this particular forum, so maybe I shouldn't have expected otherwise. Thanks anyways.

User avatar
Goofproof
Posts: 16087
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Central Indiana, USA

Re: Dental devices (DNA appliance, etc) for palatal expansion—reviews & results?

Post by Goofproof » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:13 pm

Just turning on a XPAP, with a mask, isn't what makes it work it has to be set and used correctly too. It doesn't hurt to get your mind set for success too. :roll: Jim

Many things in life require some limited effort on your personal part.
Last edited by Goofproof on Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Use data to optimize your xPAP treatment!

"The art of medicine consists in amusing the patient while nature cures the disease." Voltaire

User avatar
kteague
Posts: 7768
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 8:30 pm
Location: West and Midwest

Re: Dental devices (DNA appliance, etc) for palatal expansion—reviews & results?

Post by kteague » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:28 pm

While you are doing your research on other options, maybe the group here can help you optimize your cpap therapy so that it is more helpful to you for however much longer you might need it. Even if you decide to pursue palatal expansion, in the interim it would be nice to feel your personal best in the circumstances.

_________________
Mask: TAP PAP Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Improved Stability Mouthpiece
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: Bleep/DreamPort for full nights, Tap Pap for shorter sessions