SoClean 2: Am I a sucker??

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:03 pm

wellshooter wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:15 pm
Here is a little info on how Ozone works to kill microorganisms in water. Anybody got a humidifier tank ?

The SoClean machine is an ozone generator. It pumps ozone through the water in the water tank and returns it into the box through the hose and mask. Ozone is commercially used as a sanitizer for food and water.

https://www.wqpmag.com/eliminating-bacteria-ozone

We aren't talking about what Ozone can do if it's strong enough, we are talking about what So No Clean can do and will do proven by lab tests in the real world. Bleach will kill germs and doesn't cost $ 300. Jim

wellshooter · Post by **wellshooter** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:09 pm

Ozone at 2 ppm has been shown to kill bacteria in under 1 minute.

I thought this board would be a good place to learn. I have learned. I probably won't be back.

Lucyhere · Post by **Lucyhere** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:15 pm

Wellshooter... you really don't have to defend your use of the SoClean Machine. Most people here don't use one; I don't either. However, you have the right to spend your money any way you please. It makes sense to you and your wife to use the machine. That's what matters.

ChicagoGranny · Post by **ChicagoGranny** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:35 pm

wellshooter wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:09 pm
I thought this board would be a good place to learn.

It is.

It's also a great place to unlearn things you have been told and things you assumed.

I will give you some facts, and I base the facts on the fact that I am the one who works in the industry of low temperature sterilzation

1. So Clean claims they use the same technology as is used in hospitals. LIE - the hospital ozone sterilizers cost upwards of 100,000.00 and require an O2 farm (a room with 15 to 20 tall O2 cylinders) to provide pure oxygen to extract the ozone. Besides the fact that SoClean lied about this, why on earth do you think a 300.00 device can even come close to what a 100,000.00 device can do. If SoClean was validated to sterilize or even high level disinfect, hospitals would have hundreds of them rather than the 100K devices. The SoClean just does not have the power to do what you think it does.

2. It does not clean. Period. You think it does, place a small dab of peanut butter in your hose and see if it is still there when the cycle is complete. You think this is not a good test, it is the basis of the VA soil test, the test that all medical cleaners must pass or they cannot claim to clean.

3. Amazon reviews - nothing but feel good stories. I have not read one Amazon review that can factually claim that the SoClean kills germs. If you know of one, please post the link because I would like to read it. What is the basis of a 5 star review when all they can go on is they like it? Meaningless.

4. I did own a SoClean on the 30 day trial, when I realized what it was vs. the claims they make I returned it under the 30 day return policy. Why not just get one of the room ozone fans and hang your mask in front of it, they would both do the same thing which is nothing.

I am just repeating the same thing I have typed here about a hundred times; for now on I will just say it is awesome, give the scammers your money, you will love it.

-flightco

Source: viewtopic/t157842/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1 ... 9#p1210375

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:50 pm

wellshooter wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:15 pm
Here is a little info on how Ozone works to kill microorganisms in water. Anybody got a humidifier tank ?

The SoClean machine is an ozone generator. It pumps ozone through the water in the water tank and returns it into the box through the hose and mask. Ozone is commercially used as a sanitizer for food and water.

Well, it's clear you didn't read the second post in this thread, which references this post:

viewtopic/t157842/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1 ... 9#p1210375

SewTired · Post by **SewTired** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:33 pm

Okie bipap wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:02 pm
In three years of using my machine, I have never had any slime build up in the water chamber. Perhaps it would build up a slime if I lapped water up out of it like a dog does.

I get the pink slime every summer. It something in the air. You breathe it in whether you are using cpap or not. My windows are usually open at night. The fact that you don't have it doesn't mean others don't. Still, I just wash the humidifier. At the end of the season, I use that disinfectant stuff sold by our sponsor.

Sterilization is needed at hospitals because they use stuff for more than one patient and because they have bacteria that is unique to the hospital. However, the SoClean is a joke and nothing like what they do at the hospital.

prodigyplace · Post by **prodigyplace** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:37 pm

SewTired wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:33 pm

Okie bipap wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:02 pm
In three years of using my machine, I have never had any slime build up in the water chamber. Perhaps it would build up a slime if I lapped water up out of it like a dog does.
I get the pink slime every summer. It something in the air. You breathe it in whether you are using cpap or not. My windows are usually open at night. The fact that you don't have it doesn't mean others don't. Still, I just wash the humidifier. At the end of the season, I use that disinfectant stuff sold by our sponsor.

Sterilization is needed at hospitals because they use stuff for more than one patient and because they have bacteria that is unique to the hospital. However, the SoClean is a joke and nothing like what they do at the hospital.

At our previous hose, we started on a community water system. No problems with pink slime.
When we were moved to the county water system, we started to have the pink slime problem.We figured it was something related to the chemical treatment of the water. (chlorine, etc.)

SewTired · Post by **SewTired** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:43 pm

prodigyplace wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:37 pm

SewTired wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:33 pm

Okie bipap wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:02 pm
In three years of using my machine, I have never had any slime build up in the water chamber. Perhaps it would build up a slime if I lapped water up out of it like a dog does.
I get the pink slime every summer. It something in the air. You breathe it in whether you are using cpap or not. My windows are usually open at night. The fact that you don't have it doesn't mean others don't. Still, I just wash the humidifier. At the end of the season, I use that disinfectant stuff sold by our sponsor.

Sterilization is needed at hospitals because they use stuff for more than one patient and because they have bacteria that is unique to the hospital. However, the SoClean is a joke and nothing like what they do at the hospital.
At our previous hose, we started on a community water system. No problems with pink slime.
When we were moved to the county water system, we started to have the pink slime problem.We figured it was something related to the chemical treatment of the water. (chlorine, etc.)

That was my thought, yet I'm using distilled water AND the unit is completely washed and allowed to dry all day. Even if I used the disinfectant, it returns until about October. Then nothing.

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:28 pm

It still might be in your "distilled" water--especially if the vendor is cutting corners--a well-known problem.

Righteous · Post by **Righteous** » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:18 pm

I do have some experience with ozone. It’s used extensively in the reef aquarium hobby... it’s used to sterilize and protect fish from pathogens, and kills algae. It’s quite effective even with tanks with large water volumes.

Also that “slime” in the humidifier reservoir is actually what’s called a biofilm, which is caused by bacteria. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biofilm
Biofilms will form in a tank, even one with distilled water rather quickly.

Biofilms are important in aquarium keeping... they are the primary source of filtration (the bacteria eat all the fish pee). Aquarium keepers that run ozone generators too high can actually harm the biofilm in their tank and cause all kinds of issues.

So the premise of the soclean is actually sound (comparing it to hospital systems is silly... those are cleaning enormous volumes, not a five inch square box)... BUT... you can also accomplish the same thing with soap and water. The soap breaks apart the biofilm and destroys bacteria very effectively.

So I wouldn’t say it’s snake oil, but you still have to weigh whether it’s worth it to you. Regular cleaning with soap and water will do the same thing, obviously for a lot less money. But if you want to never wash your reservoir, it’s probably pretty effective at keeping out pathogens.

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:45 pm

Righteous wrote: ↑
Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:18 pm
I do have some experience with ozone. It’s used extensively in the reef aquarium hobby... it’s used to sterilize and protect fish from pathogens, and kills algae. It’s quite effective even with tanks with large water volumes.

Also that “slime” in the humidifier reservoir is actually what’s called a biofilm, which is caused by bacteria. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biofilm
Biofilms will form in a tank, even one with distilled water rather quickly.

Biofilms are important in aquarium keeping... they are the primary source of filtration (the bacteria eat all the fish pee). Aquarium keepers that run ozone generators too high can actually harm the biofilm in their tank and cause all kinds of issues.

So the premise of the soclean is actually sound (comparing it to hospital systems is silly... those are cleaning enormous volumes, not a five inch square box)... BUT... you can also accomplish the same thing with soap and water. The soap breaks apart the biofilm and destroys bacteria very effectively.

So I wouldn’t say it’s snake oil, but you still have to weigh whether it’s worth it to you. Regular cleaning with soap and water will do the same thing, obviously for a lot less money. But if you want to never wash your reservoir, it’s probably pretty effective at keeping out pathogens.

Where do we buy that $300 a bottle dish soap? I want to wash the germs off my billfold. Jim

archangle · Post by **archangle** » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:54 pm

Ozone will kill germs. It will also damage many forms of plastic. Whether a CPAP ozone-based germ killing system can kill germs without damaging equipment is what I question. I'm sure you could kill germs with enough ozone. I'm pretty sure you can damage plastic. The question is can you have enough ozone to kill germs without damaging plastic.

I question the need for extreme cleaning measures. The inside of your CPAP (before the water tank) is a hostile environment for germs to multiply. It's dry. There's nothing for them to feed on and multiply. There's no light to provide energy for microorganisms that can use it. With reasonable cleaning, there isn't a lot of germ food on your mask or hose. Yes, the germs in the environment and the air will be on your equipment and in your airflow. You're breathing all that stuff CPAP or not.

Remember, this isn't like hospital equipment that's been used by other people. You are the only one using it. It's also not invasive like surgery. You're already breathing or touching any of the germs that end up on your CPAP equipment.

The water tank is a little more questionable, although, in theory, germs in the water tank get left behind as the water evaporates. Using distilled water helps because there's less of the chemicals that germs need to multiply. Yes, germs from the air will land in the water. You're breathing them anyway even without CPAP. As long as the machine doesn't make more of them, you're OK.

If you want to do a really good job of killing germs, buy some Control III disinfectant and use it once in a while.

READ THE FLIPPING INSTRUCTIONS.

Control III is pretty nasty chemically in the full strength concentrate. You dilute it before you use it, and it's pretty benign after that.

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:13 pm

Control III is very effective, but if not completely rinsed off, it can irritate nasal passages.
Do your air passages a favor and rinse until you don't smell anything but "clean".
(I have some, and may try some on the inside of my trash cans.)

Righteous · Post by **Righteous** » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:15 pm

It’s a good point about potential damage to the machine... I guess it’s hard to say what materials are used in any given machine. One would hope they would use ozone risistant materials like silicon, but unless you inspect everything you won’t know. Some rubbers and polymers can be damaged by ozone

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_cracking

I would say though that just because there are bacteria in the air we breath, that’s not a reason not to clean your reservoir and tubing. Staph will be in the air, but will form biofilms inside a humidifier reservoir and tubes... that biofilm will contain many orders of magnitude more bacteria than what you breath in the air. It’s certainly possible that if your reservoir is covered in staph from not cleaning, you can overwhelm your immune system and get sinus and respratory infections. Again, regular cleaning with soap and water would be enough to kill the bacteria and destroy the biofilm, no need for heavy sanitizers like bleach. And there’s certainly enough microscopic dust and organic matter for bacteria to feed on... those air filters only filter out the big stuff... they’re not HEPA rated or anything.

So you don’t really need a soclean as long as you DO clean your reservoir and tubes on a regular basis with mild soap and water. But if your willing to risk damaging the machine and spending the money, a soclean will function.

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:19 pm

Righteous wrote: ↑
Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:15 pm
It’s a good point about potential damage to the machine... I guess it’s hard to say what materials are used in any given machine. One would hope they would use ozone risistant materials like silicon, but unless you inspect everything you won’t know. Some rubbers and polymers can be damaged by ozone

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_cracking

I would say though that just because there are bacteria in the air we breath, that’s not a reason not to clean your reservoir and tubing. Staph will be in the air, but will form biofilms inside a humidifier reservoir and tubes... that biofilm will contain many orders of magnitude more bacteria than what you breath in the air. It’s certainly possible that if your reservoir is covered in staph from not cleaning, you can overwhelm your immune system and get sinus and respratory infections. Again, regular cleaning with soap and water would be enough to kill the bacteria and destroy the biofilm, no need for heavy sanitizers like bleach. And there’s certainly enough microscopic dust and organic matter for bacteria to feed on... those air filters only filter out the big stuff... they’re not HEPA rated or anything.

So you don’t really need a soclean as long as you DO clean your reservoir and tubes on a regular basis with mild soap and water. But if your willing to risk damaging the machine and spending the money, a soclean will function.

Yes it will function as a waste of time and money, but it does give the fools that buy it a good feeling, they don't have anything else worth wasting their money on. Jim

SoClean 2: Am I a sucker??

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