Mouth filling from inside with air

mikeinstlouis · Post by **mikeinstlouis** » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:37 am

I tried a chin strap and taping last night. All that happens is that my mouth blew up like a balloon and it was even more disturbing. Horrible night.

Just to be clear, I am not a mouth breather, the air is not coming through my mouth to my lungs but rather coming from the CPAP and being redirected into my mouth rather than into my lungs. I'm not breathing through my mouth so the chin strap didn't help the tape didn't help all they did was help hold the air in my mouth.

Sorry if I wasn't more clear about this at the beginning.

nicholasjh1 · Post by **nicholasjh1** » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:54 am

mikeinstlouis wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:37 am
I tried a chin strap and taping last night. All that happens is that my mouth blew up like a balloon and it was even more disturbing. Horrible night.

Just to be clear, I am not a mouth breather, the air is not coming through my mouth to my lungs but rather coming from the CPAP and being redirected into my mouth rather than into my lungs. I'm not breathing through my mouth so the chin strap didn't help the tape didn't help all they did was help hold the air in my mouth.

Sorry if I wasn't more clear about this at the beginning.

Yes, This is initially what happened to me... exactly as you are describing (IE you are being very clear, and not all the air going into my throat, but instead some coming out of my mouth is what happened to me (or sometimes all coming out of my mouth in the middle of the night if it was an apnea)) including my cheeks puffing out. None of that happens anymore... first my checks stopped puffing out (check muscles got stronger?) then eventually it has even stopped leaking out my mouth. So my suggestion would be to give it some time... I also got some terrible aerophagia the first couple days of taping, but this also went away. I know it's frustrating. That being said, I can't say the same will work for you... as always mileage may vary... your cheeks might not get stronger, your pharynx spincters might not get stronger as apparently mine have, your pharynx may not adjust to accomodate the flow as mine has. Hopefully it will. I mean I also started taking 12mg astaxanthan which is an increbible anti-oxidant and can lower inflammation levels, so it's hard to say exactly what stopped it happening for me. it could be any number of combined factors.

Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:00 am

You have to "learn" to keep that back door closed so that air doesn't try to sneak into the mouth from the back airway.
It's easy to do while awake...just use the tongue to block the door but not so easy when we fall asleep and the tongue decides it no longer wants to keep the door shut.

Eventually the body will "learn" or adapt though but it will take some time.

There's a reflex action that will block the door and I can't tell you how it gets the job done because I don't know how I am doing it but I can now open my mouth wide...yawn...stick out my tongue...talk...and even blow raspberries at someone....with the mask on and under my normal pressure and no air at all will enter my mouth. It took me about 6 months to get to that stage.
I wish I could describe what I do but I don't know what it is I am doing but I am not the only one who can do this.
The body just learned to keep the door shut no matter if my mouth was open or closed or taped even.

I started out relying on the tongue placement to keep the door closed but eventually the body learned how to do it without needing the tongue.

Jay Aitchsee · Post by **Jay Aitchsee** » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:23 am

mikeinstlouis wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:37 am
Just to be clear, I am not a mouth breather, the air is not coming through my mouth to my lungs but rather coming from the CPAP and being redirected into my mouth rather than into my lungs. I'm not breathing through my mouth so the chin strap didn't help the tape didn't help all they did was help hold the air in my mouth.

We understand you!!
See the graphic I posted in this thread earlier (below).

The suggestions given have been to stop or slow the flow of air from the nasal passages through the throat and out the mouth. When you stop the air at the lips, the mouth fills up with air resulting in what is generally referred to as "chipmunk cheeks".

You might find a lower pressure (IPAP), with EPR, Flex, or PS, depending on your machine, to be helpful.

Why don't you try a FFM as has been suggested several times?

I don't think you would like to try a sock stuffed into the back of your mouth (but it would probably work).

mikeinstlouis · Post by **mikeinstlouis** » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:02 am

I am using a full face mask right now. I have a much higher leak rate cuz whenever I move it seems that it wants to leak. I find it uncomfortable and difficult to sleep. My numbers are getting worse as well with the full face mask. I slept much better when I used to nasal cushion except for that stupid rushing of air through my mouth. I am getting less sleep now than I've ever gotten in my life. I wake up cranky frustrated and like a general failure because I can't get this to work. I'm doing my best to try to make it work and I want to make it work but I am starting to lose hope. I'm sorry to be complaining but when you've gone without good sleep it just magnifies all problems.

I've seen that illustration and it makes perfect sense. I'm a physician I know my head and neck anatomy very well. I tried the tongue suck but when I start to fall asleep it doesn't stay up there. For me it's natural for it to fall back into place and not be sucked into the back of my throat. I understand that everyone's coming from a good place trying to help but I think the frustration level is going beyond the benefits. I'm very happy for all of the board members who are having great success with this. But that does not seem to be the case with all of us. Thanks again for listening.

nicholasjh1 · Post by **nicholasjh1** » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:51 am

mikeinstlouis wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:02 am
I am using a full face mask right now. I have a much higher leak rate cuz whenever I move it seems that it wants to leak. I find it uncomfortable and difficult to sleep. My numbers are getting worse as well with the full face mask. I slept much better when I used to nasal cushion except for that stupid rushing of air through my mouth. I am getting less sleep now than I've ever gotten in my life. I wake up cranky frustrated and like a general failure because I can't get this to work. I'm doing my best to try to make it work and I want to make it work but I am starting to lose hope. I'm sorry to be complaining but when you've gone without good sleep it just magnifies all problems.

I've seen that illustration and it makes perfect sense. I'm a physician I know my head and neck anatomy very well. I tried the tongue suck but when I start to fall asleep it doesn't stay up there. For me it's natural for it to fall back into place and not be sucked into the back of my throat. I understand that everyone's coming from a good place trying to help but I think the frustration level is going beyond the benefits. I'm very happy for all of the board members who are having great success with this. But that does not seem to be the case with all of us. Thanks again for listening.

I felt the same way... I went through 6 different iterations of full face masks, including the good old hockey mask, one that was forehead to chin like a fire fighter, the amara view and a newer one that was even better like it, and they all had various leak and comfort issues, I finally went back to the good old nasal pillows, taped up with some tape that didn't rip my skin too much as well as the ultimate chin strap that covers the mouth as well and eventually I stopped mouth leaking, and stopped getting aerophagia as well. I think it took a couple months of taping to stop getting any aerophagia issues. It only took a couple weeks to stop getting chip munk cheeks. Of course I can't guarantee anything for you as YMMV.

SoftwareDev · Post by **SoftwareDev** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:54 am

1 week in. Fine with nasal pillow super well adjusted. But reading this because of some mouth air. I try to trust my brain knows how to breathe like my specialist taught me. But I get some little mouth bubbles that are funny. Let them out and put the tongue back and take some deep nasal breaths. Change position. Wake a couple times during the night playing with the air bubbles. I set my pressure.5 higher and that helped me feel confident with flow and not feel like I was suffocating. When I love the path of the air my mouth cooperates for the most part.

ChicagoGranny · Post by **ChicagoGranny** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:13 am

SoftwareDev wrote: ↑
Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:54 am
I set my pressure.5 higher and that helped me feel confident with flow and not feel like I was suffocating.

That really means nothing to the people reading your post. Did you change the pressure from 4.0 to 4.5? Or did you change it from 19.0 to 19.5? Which pressure did you change? Min? Max? Ramp? Straight CPAP?

Please fill out your equipment profile.

mikeinstlouis · Post by **mikeinstlouis** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:30 am

I have to say that I find this all so encouraging that other people have had similar problems, understand my situation and have adapted.

I do great for about 4 or 5 hours then the "mouth bubbles" (as was beautifully described above) return.

It seems like something that the body just gets used to. You guys are describing it perfectly and you are all doing well now and that is great news.

For those who suffered the mouth bubbles and now don't...do you really think the taping and chin straps helped? I still get mouth bubbles with them so I just don't use them anymore. Seems like I get them if I use them or don't use them.

I would LOVE to be able to just make it through one night.

From what you guys are saying...it will happen. Just be patient with myself, the machine and the mouth bubbles!

Thanks for the encouragement...it makes me want to keep trying.

Mike

MichaelGuessford · Post by **MichaelGuessford** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:08 pm

I use a FFM and sleep on my back and sides

Cpapian · Post by **Cpapian** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:50 pm

mikeinstlouis wrote: ↑
Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:30 am
I have to say that I find this all so encouraging that other people have had similar problems, understand my situation and have adapted.

I do great for about 4 or 5 hours then the "mouth bubbles" (as was beautifully described above) return.

It seems like something that the body just gets used to. You guys are describing it perfectly and you are all doing well now and that is great news.

For those who suffered the mouth bubbles and now don't...do you really think the taping and chin straps helped? I still get mouth bubbles with them so I just don't use them anymore. Seems like I get them if I use them or don't use them.

I would LOVE to be able to just make it through one night.

From what you guys are saying...it will happen. Just be patient with myself, the machine and the mouth bubbles!

Thanks for the encouragement...it makes me want to keep trying.

Mike

Good for you. It will get easier.

One thing I noticed about those bubbles ..... throughout the night I rotate to all 4 positions, falling asleep on my stomach, after a number of hours to the side, and so on. Also note, I have mastered the tongue technique. When I wake up and find myself sleeping on my back there is the tiniest bit of leakage from nose to mouth, despite having my tongue in place. So I roll to a side and everything is fine.

What my thinking is that there is something in my throat/mouth anatomy that is affected by gravity.

MinSL, when you get your bubbles, make a note of which sleep position you are in.

SlackerInc · Post by **SlackerInc** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:56 pm

I use a FFM (Philips DreamStation) and I always sleep on my side. This is not a problem—in fact, it helps me keep the mask sealed: if I just lie on my back, it leaks like crazy, but on my side, I can kind of wedge my hand in a position that holds it against my face.

What I’m wondering about is the reference to “mouth breathing” as something to be avoided. I specifically started with a FFM because I knew I was a mouth breather (not in the pejorative sense, hopefully, LOL) due to my nasal allergies. I’m finding that about half the time I can sleep while breathing through my nose, and that is definitely more comfortable. But the other half of the time I breathe through my mouth. Other than puffed out cheeks (dry mouth isn’t a problem due to the humidifier), what is the risk here? I know my AHI numbers aren’t all that great most nights: usually 15-30, although occasionally in the mid-single digits. Could this be related? (I also think my therapist has failed to reckon with how much of my apnea is central, but that’s another topic.)

Cpapian · Post by **Cpapian** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:24 am

SlackerInc wrote: ↑
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:56 pm
I use a FFM (Philips DreamStation) and I always sleep on my side. This is not a problem—in fact, it helps me keep the mask sealed: if I just lie on my back, it leaks like crazy, but on my side, I can kind of wedge my hand in a position that holds it against my face.

What I’m wondering about is the reference to “mouth breathing” as something to be avoided. I specifically started with a FFM because I knew I was a mouth breather (not in the pejorative sense, hopefully, LOL) due to my nasal allergies. I’m finding that about half the time I can sleep while breathing through my nose, and that is definitely more comfortable. But the other half of the time I breathe through my mouth. Other than puffed out cheeks (dry mouth isn’t a problem due to the humidifier), what is the risk here? I know my AHI numbers aren’t all that great most nights: usually 15-30, although occasionally in the mid-single digits. Could this be related? (I also think my therapist has failed to reckon with how much of my apnea is central, but that’s another topic.)

I think the body is designed to nose breath. With this intention, the nose has the filters and construction equipped to best handle the process. Nasal breathing in itself could resolve your allergies. But that's a big could. There are numerous techniques/things you could try to improve your stuffy nose.

Your AHI is really bad. You should start your own thread to discuss. With forum members. I am sure there will be many who will help.

ChicagoGranny · Post by **ChicagoGranny** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:07 am

Cpapian wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:24 am
Your AHI is really bad. You should start your own thread to discuss. With forum members. I am sure there will be many who will help.

Right!

SlackerInc wrote: ↑
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:56 pm
I know my AHI numbers aren’t all that great most nights: usually 15-30

Slacker, you really need to start a new thread. You've posted a few times in several threads. Start a new one and stick to it. Get forum members fully familiar with your therapy. This doing it piecemeal is not good. Let's have a comprehensive look at what you are doing. If you are going to use CPAP, you need to get the full benefit. Not an AHI of 20!

mikeinstlouis · Post by **mikeinstlouis** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:01 pm

UPDATE

I'm somewhat tempted to make this a new thread but since so many people have commented on my issues I thought I should leave it here. It was recommended that I try to pay attention to what position I'm lying in and what's going on when the mouth bubbles are at their worst. Well I'm definitely seeing a pattern about 4 to 5 hours after I fall asleep I think is when my apnea is worse. I get several hypopneas which I think trigger the increase in pressure. Is definitely this increase in pressure which is causing me to have the air switch from going down into my lungs to out of my mouth.. it doesn't seem to matter what position I'm lying in. At this time of night the pressure is higher and it's coming out my mouth.

I'm kind of at a loss at what to do. I realize that I need the higher pressure to stop the hypopneas and apneas but in turn it's the higher pressures that is causing me to wake up because of the air blowing out of my mouth and causing the mouth bubbles.

Is this just something that I'm going to get used to or anybody have any suggestions?

Thank you very much for all your help

Mouth filling from inside with air

Re: Mouth filling from inside with air

Re: Mouth filling from inside with air

Re: Mouth filling from inside with air

Re: Mouth filling from inside with air

Re: Mouth filling from inside with air

Re: Mouth filling from inside with air

Re: Mouth filling from inside with air

Re: Mouth filling from inside with air

Re: Mouth filling from inside with air

Re: Mouth filling from inside with air

Re: Mouth filling from inside with air

Re: Mouth filling from inside with air

Re: Mouth filling from inside with air

Re: Mouth filling from inside with air

Re: Mouth filling from inside with air