CPAPtalk.com

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:13 pm

snarch wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:55 pm

My doctor is a world famous sleep apnea expert, but he specializes in surgical solutions and is not a CPAP expert. I trust his opinion but I also know that he has a limited perspective when it comes to CPAP. I'm trying to balance what I've been told by him as well as the information I've learned from this forum.

I appreciate your help and I will experiment with all of the advice dispensed in this thread.

"not a cpap expert". Wouldn't it be better to trust the opinions of a cpap expert?

Yes, do you know a good one?

snarch wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:18 pm

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:13 pm

snarch wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:55 pm

My doctor is a world famous sleep apnea expert, but he specializes in surgical solutions and is not a CPAP expert. I trust his opinion but I also know that he has a limited perspective when it comes to CPAP. I'm trying to balance what I've been told by him as well as the information I've learned from this forum.

I appreciate your help and I will experiment with all of the advice dispensed in this thread.

"not a cpap expert". Wouldn't it be better to trust the opinions of a cpap expert?

Yes, do you know a good one?

You're standing in the middle of a bunch of them.

I mean, I'm no expert, I've only been at this for 9 years, and have an AHI average over the last year of 0.15.... others are better than me.

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:19 pm

snarch wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:18 pm

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:13 pm

snarch wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:55 pm

My doctor is a world famous sleep apnea expert, but he specializes in surgical solutions and is not a CPAP expert. I trust his opinion but I also know that he has a limited perspective when it comes to CPAP. I'm trying to balance what I've been told by him as well as the information I've learned from this forum.

I appreciate your help and I will experiment with all of the advice dispensed in this thread.

"not a cpap expert". Wouldn't it be better to trust the opinions of a cpap expert?

Yes, do you know a good one?

You're standing in the middle of a bunch of them.

I mean, I'm no expert, I've only been at this for 9 years, and have an AHI average over the last year of 0.15.... others are better than me.

I think part of our communication breakdown is that I'm pretty much just working out my inner monologue, I didn't mean to present what my doctor said as a counter to anything from the forum members. I believe him that he has seen patients who report feeling better on a constant pressure, but I also believe that the reason for this is more than likely some kind of error in those patient's CPAP settings or mask fit. I can tell this forum is full of knowledgeable people and I'm looking forward to spending more time here. If I do play devils advocate or push back against someone's advice, it's because I don't understand it fully and I want to press them for more information. Please take pity on me and remember the confusion and lack of critical thinking skills that come with untreated OSA.

snarch wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:55 pm

. . . a world famous sleep apnea expert . . . not a CPAP expert. . . .

Maybe that doc needs more education, then.

But the present system mostly only expects docs to write the prescription and then hand off the treatment side of things to a DME RRT.

Reason #427 for benefiting from the input of experienced ones in this forum.

All true to some extent.

"Some people just can't tolerate CPAP."
- Some can never adjust. Can't sleep with the mask, can't stop ripping it off in their sleep.

"Some people just won't put up with CPAP."
- Some give up too quickly. It can be really hard.

"Some users need to be told 'Suck it up buttercup.'"
- I don't want to be mean, but sometimes you just have to tough it out.

"Some sleep doctors just don't understand CPAP. "
- Or don't care enough to go beyond assembly line medicine. It's a damn shame, but many of us only succeeded when we ditched our doctors and figured it out on our own. However, some of us screw it up. I was REALLY miserable when I screwed up my CPAP machine setting by messing with it myself. I'd probably be dead by now if I hadn't figure it out.

However, even done badly, CPAP is a true lifesaver to many people. The successful ones don't tend to show up here.

snarch wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:36 pm

If I do play devils advocate or push back against someone's advice, it's because I don't understand it fully and I want to press them for more information.

Being argumentative and "pushing back" is not an effective way to ask for more information. It hinders effective transfer of information, by forcing people to waste their time and energy refuting what you're 'pushing back' with.

The devils advocate can also muddy the waters for someone
trying to get information by just READING.
It might be "fun", but why?

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:20 pm

The devils advocate can also muddy the waters for someone
trying to get information by just READING.
It might be "fun", but why?

I'm not doing it for fun, I'm doing it so people will explain why I'm wrong so I can understand more fully.

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:07 pm

snarch wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:36 pm

If I do play devils advocate or push back against someone's advice, it's because I don't understand it fully and I want to press them for more information.

Being argumentative and "pushing back" is not an effective way to ask for more information. It hinders effective transfer of information, by forcing people to waste their time and energy refuting what you're 'pushing back' with.

I've heard before "the fastest way to get the right answer on the internet is not to ask the question but to post the wrong answer"

When my instincts are wrong as they appear to have been in this situation, I still find it useful to post my potentially incorrect reasoning so someone can explain to me clearly my misunderstanding. I'm sorry that it came across as pigheadedness and I certainly didn't intend to waste your time. Perhaps continuing this discussion is also futile, I hope to hear from you again on my next post after I do some homework on CAs and play with the epr.

snarch wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:48 am

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:07 pm

snarch wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:36 pm

If I do play devils advocate or push back against someone's advice, it's because I don't understand it fully and I want to press them for more information.

Being argumentative and "pushing back" is not an effective way to ask for more information. It hinders effective transfer of information, by forcing people to waste their time and energy refuting what you're 'pushing back' with.

I've heard before "the fastest way to get the right answer on the internet is not to ask the question but to post the wrong answer"

It's an excellent way to have someone tell you that you're wrong, not such a good way to find out the "right answer".

snarch wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:48 am

I hope to hear from you again on my next post after I do some homework on CAs and play with the epr.

Do keep everything in one thread.

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:20 pm

The devils advocate can also muddy the waters for someone

Devil don't need no advocate no more; these days he gets his message out just fine by hiding in the details posted on the Internet. And way too many people drown in his muddy waters, seems to me.

snarch wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:48 am

Perhaps continuing this discussion is also futile

Right. Continuing this section of the discussion is futile.

snarch wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:48 am

my next post after I do some homework on CAs and play with the epr.

Do keep it in this thread, so people can easily see your history.

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:19 pm

I mean, I'm no expert...

You're totally wrong about that.

djams wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:13 am

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:19 pm

I mean, I'm no expert...

You're totally wrong about that.

Agreed!
Palerider knows more about xpap than most of us.
Others may be better at "nice"; but sometimes you "just need the facts, ma'am."
(Yes, I was thinking of Jack Webb there)

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:09 pm

Palerider knows more about xpap than most of us.
Others may be better at "nice"; but sometimes you "just need the facts, ma'am."
(Yes, I was thinking of Jack Webb there)

If the purpose is to help it doesn't really matter how much one knows if newbies are driven out of forum with rudeness. There's more to helping people than showing off. From my perspective, palerider belittled the OP. Now there is cheering for how great palerider is and giving him an explicit pass for being less than nice, which isn't really going to encourage the OP to come back for additional information.