Problems with airflow for Resmed P10

zonker wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:51 pm

Mr Nosey wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:38 pm

I think Resmed should be more explicit about this potential issue with the mask, highlighting the problem in the trouble shooting section of the manual. I'm going to write to Resmed tomorrow and will share any response here.
Best,

Richard

i'll be very interested in what (if anything) resmed has to say. i've never had any interaction with the manufacturers of cpap equipment. but i get this vague feeling from hanging out here on the forum that they won't be responsive.

no proof of that, mind you. so like i say, i'd be happy to see how they react.

They're (presumably) responsive to their customers.

We're not their customers.

palerider wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:16 am

zonker wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:51 pm

Mr Nosey wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:38 pm

I think Resmed should be more explicit about this potential issue with the mask, highlighting the problem in the trouble shooting section of the manual. I'm going to write to Resmed tomorrow and will share any response here.
Best,

Richard

i'll be very interested in what (if anything) resmed has to say. i've never had any interaction with the manufacturers of cpap equipment. but i get this vague feeling from hanging out here on the forum that they won't be responsive.

no proof of that, mind you. so like i say, i'd be happy to see how they react.

They're (presumably) responsive to their customers.

We're not their customers.

Palerider,

You nailed it with your comment about my comment about contacting Resmed. I called twice and both times spoke to a low level "grunt", who said that their role was to write down information and send it to the appropriate person or group...they were not in a position to do anything more than pass on info. With both discussions, I asked to talk to the manager and after some delay, was told that the manager was currently unable to talk. I provided my contact info both times..no follow up. Seems that Resmed could care less about the people who use their products (except for sales) and only care about what the DME provider says (as they drive sales).

I did speak to the DME provider (Sleepmed). Both the person locally who helps patients with masks (in person and by email or phone) and one of their "specialists" knew nothing about the problem with the P10 air diffuser. I called the local person to let her know what I'd found out. She actually went to look at the manual while on the phone with me and was surprised that there was no mention of the blocked air diffuser/C02 increase/feeling of suffocation in the troubleshooting section of the manual. I was told that their specialist would be notified of the issue. Who knows if Sleepmed will contact Resmed..personally I very much doubt it. The DME is more interested in trying to get me signed up for automatic sending of a new nasal pillow every 2 weeks (YIKES...pathetic).

One last thing..and quite important. After scrubbing the air diffuser with a toothbrush and warm water/soap, I was able to use it for two nights and then had the problem again. Scrubbing the mask a second time did not help...I was able to get it to function properly only by use of a water pic. Maybe my mask had too much blockage such that the toothbrush was not optimally effective (had been using the mask for 3 months). Maybe my mask is an outlier, there being some variance in manufacturing or it was failing due to conditions of use (home and travel, including 3 weeks on a boat).

The bottom line is that of all of the nasal pillow masks I have used (~6), the P10 has been the best for me...good fit/comfort and least amount of leaking. I'll probably buy a second one, use a water pic frequently for cleaning and see if my mileage increases.

I still strongly agree with jnk when he said "any mask in which simple moisture renders the vent completely ineffective is a mask that needs a bold warning somewhere for legal and ethical reasons"

SAD

Mr Nosey wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:11 pm

I still strongly agree with jnk . . .

I rarely even agree with myself "strongly."

Hope you didn't use my name at ResMed, or you might end up on the same no-fly list I am on.

If I were playing advocate against myself, as I sometimes do, I would point out that they do admit that moisture is a problem, as seen in the troubleshooting section of their manual (fair use, since this is a critique):

https://www.resmed.com/au/dam/documents ... ac_eng.pdf

Note that the mention of "safety of the mask" is immediately (sort of) followed by "ensure the vent is dry." I do not believe that such placement of the wording is accidental. And this isn't the only mask that "can" be affected by rainout. But I'm sure the designers of the mask and the writers of the manual's copy have no electronic trail that could be used in order to assail their plausible deniability. (I am a card-carrying conspiracy theorist, just so you know. )

That said, I still love the mask. I think they got a lot more right than they got wrong, if their plan (although it wasn't) was to make the perfect mask for jnk... .

I am still completely with you on the need for a clearer, more obvious warning on keeping the vent dry. I think that would be smart on ResMed's part, and a favor to users. Even though, just as PR said, we are not ResMed's customers, technically speaking.

Mr Nosey wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:11 pm

(lots of dissembling)

I still strongly agree with jnk when he said "any mask in which simple moisture renders the vent completely ineffective is a mask that needs a bold warning somewhere for legal and ethical reasons"

SAD

What's truly sad is that you can't just own up to the fact that *you* screwed up. You didn't bother to read the manual, thinking you knew everything about it since you've been on cpap for years, and so when you come up across something new, and you ended up with a problem, you, as *so many* these days do, blame someone else.

Nothing that Resmed could have done would have gotten to you, not a warning on the package, (certainly not) instructions in the manual, nothing. I'd bet a buck that even if someone *TOLD* you, you'd have gone "yeah yeah, whatever, i know what I'm doing".

But, of course, it's *their* fault.

The P10 is a very popular mask. If it was the kind of issue you make it out to be, the forums would be *filled* with stories such as yours. But, they're NOT. I've seen three or four posts in the *years* since the P10 came out. None as relentlessly whiny as yours, though.

SAD

palerider wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:24 pm

None as relentlessly whiny as yours, though.

The message I'm hearing is that I really need to take MY whining up a notch.

jnk... wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:14 pm

palerider wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:24 pm

None as relentlessly whiny as yours, though.

The message I'm hearing is that I really need to take MY whining up a notch.

Several orders of magnitude, if you want to compete.

You know I have been using the P10 since it first came out...how many years now??
And we all know that I am probably the least finicky person about washing/cleaning anything.
And I have never had the vent holes block up or feel like the air flow was restricted....and I use high humidity so often get at least a little condensation in those holes.
So why has it been that I haven't had that problem???? Beats me.
The only time I ever even used a toothbrush for cleaning was when I was trying to clean off the gray discoloration (didn't help BTW) but the vent holes weren't blocked...the mesh was just off color.

I know it happens but I think rarely compared to the number of people using the mask....and I have never experienced the vent holes actually being blocked by anything....and everyone knows that cleaning anything is always last on my to do list.
I might go 2 or 3 months without the mask or pillow ever touching water.
Usually if water is involved...I am trying to shrink the headgear.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:27 pm

Usually if water is involved...I am trying to shrink the headgear.

I've gotten to where I have several of the headgear, and every couple weeks, I take one off, toss it in the laundry, and put a different one on the mask, when i take the strap(s) out of the dryer, I just toss them into the drawer to be pulled out at some other time.

jnk... wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:14 pm

palerider wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:24 pm

None as relentlessly whiny as yours, though.

The message I'm hearing is that I really need to take MY whining up a notch.

LOL, ignore PR's rant. Posting 22,363 times in 9 years (~7 times /day for 9 years!), one can see how he might be curmudgeonly on occasion!!!

Can't ignore him. I learn too much from him.

He has the time. Glad he uses it to help others.

And, hey, I am doing my best to be one of the ranters in this thread. I'm just not good at it yet! But I'll get there.

palerider wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:24 pm

The P10 is a very popular mask. If it was the kind of issue you make it out to be, the forums would be *filled* with stories such as yours. But, they're NOT. I've seen three or four posts in the *years* since the P10 came out. None as relentlessly whiny as yours, though.

Probably worth mentioning that although it's a very popular mask, that doesn't mean it's immune from negative comments.

With regularity users are not afraid to negatively comment on it's lack of ability to adjust tightness, and it becoming stretched.

Given the P10 popularity, and people will post negatively, the fact that this issue hasn't been commented on is pretty compelling evidence it's an outlier.

A simple test is to dip the vent in water to soak it. Then put the mask on. Then plug the end of the mask hose with your hand. See if you can blow any air out the vent. I found that I could not blow any air out the vent after a bad night of rainout. I woke up out of breath, which never happens to me.

Whether this happens to anyone else during use may depend on how bad the rainout is and how high the pressure is on average for blowing out the moisture and drying the vent.

Some rebreathing of CO2 may actually help some people with central tendencies, for that matter.

I consider the P10 a great mask whose silence is obtained by a very fine mesh that is more prone to moisture issues than most. This may, or may not, be an issue for any individual user. Few would complain about it if they didn't understand exactly what was happening. They might just decide that it is their machine or that CPAP isn't for them and just move on rather than solving the issue this mask has.

In my opinion.

End of wimpy rant from me. In this thread, anyway.

One thing that comes to mind after reading through this thread....is manufacturing tolerances.

Those holes in the P10 are pretty small. Casting molds are not immune to problems. Even wear. If the temperature of the injected resins was off a little, or timing to remove the part off a little, that could lead to the holes NOT meeting the design tolerance. So there could be a percentage of these slip through that are borderline. I don't doubt there is an inspection process, but stuff happens.

Dog Slobber wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:13 am

palerider wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:24 pm

The P10 is a very popular mask. If it was the kind of issue you make it out to be, the forums would be *filled* with stories such as yours. But, they're NOT. I've seen three or four posts in the *years* since the P10 came out. None as relentlessly whiny as yours, though.

Probably worth mentioning that although it's a very popular mask, that doesn't mean it's immune from negative comments.

With regularity users are not afraid to negatively comment on it's lack of ability to adjust tightness, and it becoming stretched.

Given the P10 popularity, and people will post negatively, the fact that this issue hasn't been commented on is pretty compelling evidence it's an outlier.

That's exactly my point. tons of people use it, there's lots of gripes about the strap (it's almost hard for me to call that strap "headgear" ), LOTS of gripes... and gripes about noses being sore when people start using it...

I hear ya. But people know when their nose is sore and when they have trouble with a strap. Very few understand the purpose of venting or would recognize issues with CO2. So I personally consider the lack of public complaint to be evidence of nothing at all as far as that limitation in the design. Hey, just whiny me.