Problems with airflow for Resmed P10

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:44 pm

jnk... wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:41 pm
I hear ya. But people know when their nose is sore and when they have trouble with a strap. Very few understand the purpose of venting or would recognize issues with CO2. So I personally consider the lack of public complaint to be evidence of nothing at all as far as that limitation in the design. Hey, just whiny me.

They may not recognize the exact cause, but they would be complaining about headaches, shortness of breath, not being able to sleep with it.. etc..

They'd complain, it's what people do.

The lack of a cacophony is a valid data point in and of itself.

jnk... · Post by **jnk...** » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:27 pm

Exactly. They would complain that they don't like CPAP. And of course, no one EVER does that.

mdmarmd · Post by **mdmarmd** » Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:18 pm

EVIDENCE OF AIRFIT P10 VENT OBSTRUCTION CAUSING HYPERCAPNIA

For those still concerned about potential obstruction of P10 vents I am posting a few of my graphs that show measurements of an acute rise in intra-luminal CO2 in a P10 as it's vents completely obstruct.

: GRAPH 5.jpg (286.44 KiB) Viewed 3098 times

: GRAPH 6.jpg (311.64 KiB) Viewed 3098 times

: GRAPH 7.jpg (261.19 KiB) Viewed 3098 times

You can see the full, detailed post at:
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread ... YPERCAPNIA

BTW: After returning to this site to see if there were other post regarding this problem with the P10, I was quite surprised to see how unkind and condescending some of the postings can be.

Didn't bother to read? It's in there.

What do you want them to do, put a plastic flag on the mask itself? like you find on electrical cords?

When was the last time you read one of those? The last Christmas lights I bought had *THREE* flags... I didn't read those either.

I don't have a "condescending attitude" with respect to this. You went on a rant. I pointed out that you admitted to not bothering to read the very instructions that you so vehemently indicated Resmed should have supplied. I'm sorry you didn't like being called on it.

What's truly sad is that you can't just own up to the fact that *you* screwed up.

I've seen three or four posts in the *years* since the P10 came out. None as
relentlessly whiny as yours, though.

Or in anther thread:

PLEASE stop posting your ignorance here.

I tried to find the forum rules that speak to decorum expected on the forum, and apparently there is next to none.

I did read that this is an unmoderated forum, which may be the reason an “anything goes” attitude is acceptable. Apparently, CPAP.com is not concerned enough to commit the resources to ensure that the forum they sponsor is a safe, and inviting educational site, especially for newbies. I suspect a lot of visitors are inhibited by the coarse responses and just stay as "lurkers", or move on to other sites.

I am apparently not alone in my, "whiny" view!

viewtopic/t99455/Basic-posting-rules-of-this-group.html

As a psychiatrist, I can say we have a name for individuals that manifest these features. We call them toxic people!

I would suggest the phrase, Offering all the warm fuzzies of the fictional Doctor House, MD should be retired.

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:28 pm

mdmarmd wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:18 pm
a safe, and inviting educational site,

You're looking for apneaboard.com.

It's a safe, warm, cuddly, inviting educational site, suitable for 8 year olds, where feelings are more important than accurate facts about treatment.

Enjoy.

There's no reason to try and homogenize every site on the internet to be what *YOU* want it to be.

Different people have different desires, different wants, and believe it or not, some of them don't happen to match yours.

If you step back, and look at it analytically, you'd realize that the people that are here, are here *because they want to be*, some are exclusively here, some share their time between here and apneaboard, and freecpapadvice, which is somewhere in between the two extremes.

Have you noticed the relative size of the boards? here, in the nasty place, there's 88,222 registered users, and 105,607 threads. well over a million posts.

Over in the safe place, "Our members have made a total of 283,013 posts in 22,858 threads. We currently have 73,277 members registered."

mdmarmd wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:18 pm
As a psychiatrist, I can say we have a name for individuals that manifest these features. We call them toxic people!

You'll no doubt find this an entirely appropriate scenario:
viewtopic/t110943/Grannys-Funny-Bone.ht ... 0#p1292385

zonker · Post by **zonker** » Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:08 pm

mdmarmd wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:18 pm

I tried to find the forum rules that speak to decorum expected on the forum, and apparently there is next to none.

the owner of this forum, who also owns cpap.com, is a libertarian. as such, he firmly believes that there be NO restriction on free speech. and i mean NONE.

this lead to quite a ruckus about a year ago, where we had a troll come and pretty much be foul mouthed to everyone. we pleaded to have him removed. finally, after several months, we convinced the forum owner to get rid of him.

this lead to our first time ever and current moderator, pugsy. she pretty much lets things ride, for the most part. her firm rule is that we can argue on merit, but name calling and foul language is something she really doesn't like.

we get folk here from time to time that don't like the atmosphere. and that's too bad. myself, i'm not so concerned about that. my concern is more towards the correct information being posted and that people can be helped.

i'm sorry you feel the way you do. you aren't alone, that's for sure. but i've been here for 3 1/2 years. i've learned that it is what it is and can deal with it.

good luck to you in your endeavors to change the forum.

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:11 pm

zonker wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:08 pm

mdmarmd wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:18 pm
I tried to find the forum rules that speak to decorum expected on the forum, and apparently there is next to none.
good luck to you in your endeavors to change the forum.

I don't understand why busybodies always have to feel they should be able to change something they don't like, when nobody is forcing them to be where they don't like things.

Why not go somewhere that's already the way the like it?

zonker · Post by **zonker** » Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:17 pm

palerider wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:11 pm

zonker wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:08 pm

mdmarmd wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:18 pm
I tried to find the forum rules that speak to decorum expected on the forum, and apparently there is next to none.
good luck to you in your endeavors to change the forum.
I don't understand why busybodies always have to feel they should be able to change something they don't like, when nobody is forcing them to be where they don't like things.

Why not go somewhere that's already the way the like it?

i wish i could find the quote, but radio (and real life) psychologist dr. joy browne would often tell her callers something along the lines of "you can't change other people; you can only change yourself."

ETA-oh, here it is-

changothers.jpg

i had always thought it was dr. browne herself.

HoseCrusher · Post by **HoseCrusher** » Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:45 pm

mdmarmd, It is interesting to note that ResMed seems to be suggesting replacing nasal mask cushions every 14 days.

https://www.resmed.com/us/en/consumer/p ... plies.html

It appears you were using yours for some 6 months. That is slightly longer than 14 days.

If you could show that the filter could get clogged under normal use in 14 days or less, there would technically be a design problem. As it stands perhaps replacing every 3 months would avoid filter clogging to the point of increasing CO2 levels.

zonker · Post by **zonker** » Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:06 pm

HoseCrusher wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:45 pm
mdmarmd, It is interesting to note that ResMed seems to be suggesting replacing nasal mask cushions every 14 days.

i wonder what resmed's motive could be for that?

my p10 has last more than 1 1/2 years with daily wipes from unscented baby wipe and washing the pillows about every 2-3 months. when the straps get loose, i wash those as well to get them back into shape.

no leaks or other problems so far.

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:31 pm

HoseCrusher wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:45 pm
mdmarmd, It is interesting to note that ResMed seems to be suggesting replacing nasal mask cushions every 14 days.

https://www.resmed.com/us/en/consumer/p ... plies.html

It appears you were using yours for some 6 months. That is slightly longer than 14 days.

If you could show that the filter could get clogged under normal use in 14 days or less, there would technically be a design problem. As it stands perhaps replacing every 3 months would avoid filter clogging to the point of increasing CO2 levels.

You've made a fundamental failure at the beginning of your thought process here.

mdmarmd is talking about the *vent* which is not part of the cushion, it's part of the *frame*, which is replacable through insurance every 3 months, not every 14 days.

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:33 pm

zonker wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:06 pm

HoseCrusher wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:45 pm
mdmarmd, It is interesting to note that ResMed seems to be suggesting replacing nasal mask cushions every 14 days.

i wonder what resmed's motive could be for that?

Pandering to greedy DMEs.

I'd find it amusing if i didn't find it so pathetic where that page says every 14 days for a filter, but Resmed's clinical manuals say *SIX MONTHS*.

john5757 · Post by **john5757** » Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:49 pm

mdmarmd wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:18 pm
EVIDENCE OF AIRFIT P10 VENT OBSTRUCTION CAUSING HYPERCAPNIA

Thanks for the link at ApneaBoard which shows how vent mesh looks like. There is no round holes just I though, just slits too small for me to see. The mesh looks more like a cloth weave but plastic instead. Even when new the P10 I tried was new it did not have outstanding CO2 washout. It was not until the CO2 was building up after a period of a few months that I saw the big picture. Thanks for the link since I had a hard time seeing the holes even with a magnifier.

mdmarmd · Post by **mdmarmd** » Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:06 pm

mdmarmd, It is interesting to note that ResMed seems to be suggesting replacing nasal mask cushions every 14 days

It is the frame and not the cushions that contribute to this problem. The Cushions (pillows) even if quite dirty would not stop the ventilation.

I don't know how Resmed could justify replacement of the cushions at such an accelerated rate. Most probably think its because of contamination. But your mouth and nose are some of the dirtiest sites in your body and zillions of commensal bacteria live happily within us. So normal soapy water should keep the cushions clean. And I seriously doubt that facial oils can accelerate the deterioration to such a degree. This is probably some of the best medical grade silicone made.

It would seem of dubious intent, if a manufacturer deliberately designed a product (with high risk) requiring an accelerated replacement schedule.

Apria is my DME and they follow the Medicare replacement guidelines:

Water Tank every 6M
Pillows every 3M
Headgear every 6M
Frame every 3M
Filter every 3M
Tube every 3M

I suppose if you replaced the frames every 3 months you could reduce the frequency of this problem, but not everyone living on a fixed income can always afford even the copay.

And its important to remember that multiple, credible reports (on the site for eight-year olds) indicate that some P10 can obstruct with condensation even when they are NEW.

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:28 pm

There used to be a regular poster who was OBSESSED about hypercapnia.
He appears to be gone--probably died of fright.

jimbud · Post by **jimbud** » Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:59 pm

I like it here. Don't you guys EVER change. Freedom of speech will set you free.
JPB

Problems with airflow for Resmed P10

Re: Problems with airflow for Resmed P10

Re: Problems with airflow for Resmed P10

Re: Problems with airflow for Resmed P10

Re: Problems with airflow for Resmed P10

Re: Problems with airflow for Resmed P10

Re: Problems with airflow for Resmed P10

Re: Problems with airflow for Resmed P10

Re: Problems with airflow for Resmed P10

Re: Problems with airflow for Resmed P10

Re: Problems with airflow for Resmed P10

Re: Problems with airflow for Resmed P10

Re: Problems with airflow for Resmed P10

Re: Problems with airflow for Resmed P10

Re: Problems with airflow for Resmed P10

Re: Problems with airflow for Resmed P10

Machine	Mask