Just decided taping is unsafe

[dtsm]

Tried to make a funny - failed miserably.

Sorry, completely missed it...

[SMenasco]

Archangle has made some points. Very good points? Who knows? Still no evidence of anyone suffering any kind of malady from taping. The stated risks are all conjecture, all what ifs. I suppose this argument will go on and on. With tape over your mouth, just how in the world would anyone manage to swallow the tape? Risks? I'm not convinced. Opinions based on fear? I think so. I know Archangle means well and is very knowledgeable. And he might even be correct. I just don't think so. In my case, if I was scared of doing myself harm by taping and chose to cease, then I would be miserable waking up several times every night with painful dry mouth for the rest of my life. No rest, no extended sleep. So what are those of us with similar problems supposed to do? Recognize the risks? What does the gain me? And are the risks substantiated by concrete examples?

[Maxie]

Taping for me is more like a reminder to my mouth to stay closed as I'm not normally a mouth breather. It's not like the duct tape you see in the movies but one strip across my lips that I "tuck in" prior to putting on the tape. If I really need to, I can talk with the tape on. It's really a personal decision and you have to do what works for you.

[archangle]

One thing I worried about was swallowing and choking on a piece of tape or other mask barrier.

I wouldn't worry about choking on a piece of tape. Have you ever heard of someone swallowing something like a hair band, their own hair, bra straps, bandages, leaves, etc. in their sleep? If an object is outside our mouth when we go to sleep, we don't usually accidentally suck it into our mouths and swallow it in our sleep.

[archangle]

Still no evidence of anyone suffering any kind of malady from taping. And are the risks substantiated by concrete examples?

Once again, when someone recommends a medical procedure with some obvious potential risks, the burden of proof is on the person claiming it's safe, not on the person pointing out the risks.

Especially when the equipment manufacturers all put anti-asphyxia valves on full face masks to reduce the risk of asphyxiation. Respironics even warns that there is a risk of asphyxiation on their chin straps. (No, I'm not personally that worried about chin straps.)

What can you do about the risks? Try harder to make it work without tape. Fold an edge over to give you a quick pull tab to make it easier to remove. Be sure you can take the tape off quickly, or open your mouth. If you have someone you live with, have them wake you up if the power goes out. Keep in mind to take the mask or tape off if power goes out. Don't tape if you're really drunk, seriously sedated, on certain meds, seriously stoned, suffering from other problems, etc. Tape your mouth closed a little less completely. Maybe get a power off alarm, or don't tape if there's a thunderstorm or other reasons that a power outage is likely.

Or weigh the risks and decide taping is worth it as a last resort. Be sure to reevaluate the risks if your own health conditions change.

[derek70]

I think it safer parcial taping jut to the point that don't let your lower jaw falling down.
I'm using a 12mm Micropore from my chin to the base of my nose.
Leak is under control and I can mouth breathe if I want.

[peterg]

Where can you buy a power failure warning device? It sounds like a great idea!

They are actually fairly common here in the US and found in a lot of hardware stores.
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/relian ... light.html
Above is one example. Less than $20.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... IkBEPMCMAA

chirpy chirpy cheepy cheepy
$10 free postage.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Super-Loud-1 ... 27c3d1d164

[peterg]

I I wouldn't bother with a UPS for CPAP. Usually it takes up to an hour or more for power to be restored here so UPS isn't gonna last long enough.

my temporary UPS lasted for a couple of hours, without humidifier. i also had an option to put a car battery into it... plenty of threads in this forum for that issue, but UPS just for the alarm and to keep computers longer lived in rural powered homes like mine isnt a bad option. this new UPS didnt make an anooying humming noise like one I had a decade ago.

[TANSTAF1]

This is a stupid question but here goes anyway. I use a nasal mask. I don't think I mouth breath, although sometimes I have dry mouth in the morning even though the humidifier is on. is this an indicator that I sometime mouth breath? How else could I tell? Look for massive mask leaks?

[archangle]

This is a stupid question but here goes anyway. I use a nasal mask. I don't think I mouth breath, although sometimes I have dry mouth in the morning even though the humidifier is on. is this an indicator that I sometime mouth breath? How else could I tell? Look for massive mask leaks?

If you are using the M series Plus CPAP machine, there's no leak data to look at.

If you have a machine that reports leaks, it would probably show as spikes in your leak rate. You can get enough of a leak to dry your mouth out without showing up as a really big leak.

You might try doing something like putting an ace bandage over your mouth. You can breathe through it easily and if air is leaking through it, it will probably be wet from condensation in the morning. Not a really good test, but it might give you some idea.

[Pugsy]

This is a stupid question but here goes anyway. I use a nasal mask. I don't think I mouth breath, although sometimes I have dry mouth in the morning even though the humidifier is on. is this an indicator that I sometime mouth breath? How else could I tell? Look for massive mask leaks?

Normally dry mouth equals mouth breathing when we use a nasal pillow or over the nose mask but there can be other causes like meds or hydration issues (not drinking enough water).
It doesn't always show up as a large horrible massive leak though.
I use a nasal pillow mask and sometimes I wake up with a dry mouth and mouth is open, during the middle of the night. I do have the software and when I checked my leak line...no huge leaks and nothing that would be hugely exciting in regards to leak.
Now I know I woke up with mouth open but since I don't see anything exciting on the leak line then I assume that the mouth breathing episode was rather short lived. I shrug my shoulders and move on and don't worry about it.
It doesn't always take a huge prolonged large leak with mouth breathing to create dry mouth.
Dry mouth can come from very minor short lived mouth breathing.
If I saw huge prolonged leak spikes...then I would worry about it.

When you get your new full data machine you will be able to see if there are any large leaks...and be able to figure out if dry mouth is maybe from a large leak..if no large leak seen then perhaps minor mouth breathing or even maybe meds and normal hydration issues at work.

[TANSTAF1]

I guess I should have updated my profile/signature, but to be fair I have only had my new S9 AutoSet for two nights.

I guess I never thought about the possibility that I would breathe through my mouth since when I talk when using my mask the air rushes out and if that happened while sleeping I would think that would wake me up.

Wouldn't the leak through the mouth shows as mask leak? What's a normal mask leak level?

[Pugsy]

Wouldn't the leak through the mouth shows as mask leak? What's a normal mask leak level?

Leaking through the mouth may or may not show up as leak on the reports. It all depends on how much mouth breathing there is. It doesn't always scream "I am mouth breathing".

All masks have intentional vent/leak rates which will vary between mask models and the pressure used. This is documented in the mask paperwork. The higher the pressure used, the more the vent rate is. Typically nasal pillow masks will have a lesser vent rate at say 10 cm pressure than a nasal over the nose mask and an over the nose mask will have a lesser vent rate at same pressure than a full face mask. ResMed machines use a mask selection feature and when you make a mask selection choice you are telling the machine which vent rate to use before reporting your leak numbers. ResMed machines subtract a predetermined amount of vent rate before they report leak so the ResMed machines report only excess leak. So ResMed machines don't show a "normal" vent/leak level. Instead they tell you that they can deal with leaks up to 24 L/min and they don't show you a report with the vent rate included.

Respironics and other machines normally report total leak (the vent rate plus excess leak)
so we do see a "normal" vent/leak number shown on those reports.

For your new ResMed machine...use the software and evaluate the leak numbers and look at the leak line. If your leak line is always well below that 24 L/min line...if you are mouth breathing it is likely minimal and not impacting therapy greatly. Even a very short lived spike to or above that 24 L/min line is not the end of the world.

[archangle]

The machine doesn't actually know how much air the mask is leaking through the vents. It has a table that says "for mask X, and pressure Y, the intentional leak rate is Z." Then it subtracts Z.

Mouth leaks, vent leaks, holes in the hose, or leaks around the mask all look the same to the machine. It only sees airflow at its end of the hose.

I think you can get a small enough mouth leak to cause you dry mouth without showing up on your graphs, affecting the therapeutic pressure, or waking you up. I sometimes catch myself with a very small stream of air coming out of my mouth or sort of bubbling small puffs of air. Realize that the general idea is to block off the airflow through your mouth with the back of your tongue, not your lips.

[lkloven]

It's been a long time since you wrote your comment, but in case anyone still reads, I thought I'd respond. I'm a respiratory therapists and work with patients with using cpap. I want to tell you that you do not need to worry about your mouth opening while you sleep and it causing you to have apnea with wearing the nasal pillows. I have patients who wear nasal pillows or nasal masks who breathe with their mouth open and it does not cause apnea. The pressuers the cpap machine give, allows enough pressure to alleviate the apnea, depite the mouth opening. If you don't like your mouth opening, for comort purposes, there are other alternatives. There are chin straps you can try or the full face mask. Otherwise, there is no need for you to have to tape your mouth or be concerned. Also, don't worry about the carbon dioxide build up if your machine suddenly turned off. Your brain should cause you to wake you up if you aren't getting any pressures or breath. There are many nasal masks out there that also have the exhalation port, as well.