Quattro Air

[Vader]

I take all these comments to heart and I am going to try the Air. I have tried several different masks and always ended back with the Quattro medium. I have it cinched down pretty good with no leaks,(have red lines in the morning, but who cares...lol). I understand that the same size (med) mask is the (Large) in the Air. Just looking for something lighter, this sounds like the ticket. Here's to better sleep...

I hope it works for you! it's definitely worth trying. Let us know how it worked out after you've given the Air a trial. For me it's been it's been the very best mask I've used in 8 years.

[Indyellen]

Has anyone switched from the Quattro FX to the Air? I'm all of a sudden having massive leak issues with my FX and have heard so much good stuff about the Air, but I don't know how they compare.

[Vader]

Has anyone switched from the Quattro FX to the Air? I'm all of a sudden having massive leak issues with my FX and have heard so much good stuff about the Air, but I don't know how they compare.

I've used the Mirage Quattro and the Quattro FX before switching to the Air, and I like the Air much better.
I think the worst leaker (for me) of the three, is the QFX. I think the leakage is due in part to the horrible headgear. My wife uses the QFX and I hate how strong the exhaust blows out towards me! Other than that, the QFX suits her fine.
The Air has very diffused exhaust, great headgear, is very lightweight, and for me, the best of what I've used thus far.

Just be careful of the sizing, as it does run a tad bit smaller than the Mirage, and QFX.

[skram]

Has anyone switched from the Quattro FX to the Air? I'm all of a sudden having massive leak issues with my FX and have heard so much good stuff about the Air, but I don't know how they compare.

I can't really say I switched as I am still trying out some masks, but I used the FX for 3 nights and I've now used the Air for 1 night, so I'll give my impressions so far.

FX pluses:
- comfortable
- no forehead support and no strap around the forehead

FX negatives:
- had some leak issues
- when leaked, got loud - issue for both me and my wife
- my wife said it was louder than any other mask I tried and she didn't like the venting when it pointed towards her

Air pluses:
- lightweight
- quiet
- exhaust if more diffused
- seems narrower, so I had fewer issues when sleeping on my side. Was actually surprised how easy it was to sleep on my side with a ffm

Air negatives:
- forehead support and strap around the head. This is partly personal preference, but this morning I also had a bit of a headache, not sure if it was from the support/stap or because I've got a bit of a cold. (I'm actually going to mainly use the Pilairo, but I was too congested last night to use it). I'll have to see how the Air performs on a night after I've shaken the cold.
- I haven't looked at the Sleepyhead graphs yet (at work and SD card is at home), but my AHI was higher this morning (Only been using a month, but typically seems to be <1 with the Pilairo and it was 2.9 this am). Will see how that goes with further tries. I have the Air for a couple weeks and then have another appointment and will let them now if I'll keep it or not.

[Bobby269]

I have used most of those masks. The hybrid doesn't work for me. I use the quattro FX large. The quattro air med. leaks and doesn't fit correctly. The large is the size for me. I'm working on getting the adjustment down pat. I haven't been able to stop the leaks completely, but I will. It is more comfortable and a lot lighter.

[OldSarge]

Anyway......to the point I wanted to make when I first started this response....

Has anyone used the Quatro Air, Mirage Liberty, and the Innomed Hybrid? Or any combination thereof?
If so, which ones worked for you leak-wise, and which ones didn't? If a particular mask leaked, please note what area of the mask was the most problematic.

HI Digital - I'm getting my CPAP care at the VA in Wichita Kansas. I had been using the Quattro thru 2 cataract surgeries so I know about the leaks too. Without going thru too much other detail my unit was again reset (I am starting my 5th month with CPAP) due to high leaks associated with congestion and the tech also issued me another mask to try: Respronics Amara with the GEl insert (regular silicone one comes with it also). I found the Amara seals better - especially in the nasal/eye socket area where I had to be real careful after cataract surgery. (The Quattro was a real issue with that area). The Amara gel has much greater "body" or stiffness from the Gel and it is a more compact shape (Narrower). It also has gel at the nose area - just have to be careful to position it well so there are no nose irratation issues. I am able to use it with my machine set for 15cm after ramp up. So it can take a pretty high pressure. Just something else to consider assuming your VA is familiar with it.

I am going in for eyelid reduction surgery (increase eyesight range) next month which will include a slight brow lift at the same time. So I can't wear anything on the forehead while it heals. I asked the tech if he had any hybrid masks as I am a mouth breather. He said they have not had good sucess with Hybrid masks and don't carry them in their stock there. He only had one Resmed Liberty in small and another mouth only mask a Fisher Pakel Oracle™ 452 Oral Mask.
So I'll have to see whether I can even use CPAP until the stitches come out. I hate facing a week or so without the CPAP as I have finally gotten my AHI's down to under 5 since the new set up and mask. I finally feel like I am "winning".
Anyone have another suggestion for something that does not have forehead supports?

By the way - I agree with you the VA is a great deal. And all of the vets I see there claim the Wichita one is one of the best - with patients all the way from Oklahoma and even Nebraska driving all the way to get there. I feel very lucky to be getting care there.

[Denial Dave]

one of these days, I'm going to put my mad scientist hat on and merge the Quattro, Quattro AIR and the new F & P Simplus into one mask.

The light feel of the AIR combined with the forehead support & headgear on the F & P Simplus, then mix in the frame size & shape of the Quattro... it'll have a double wall cushion for comfort.

LOL

[DoriC]

one of these days, I'm going to put my mad scientist hat on and merge the Quattro, Quattro AIR and the new F & P Simplus into one mask.

The light feel of the AIR combined with the forehead support & headgear on the F & P Simplus, then mix in the frame size & shape of the Quattro... it'll have a double wall cushion for comfort.

LOL

That's exactly what I'd want so please don't take too long,! BTW, have you thought about changing your user name? I can't think of a good substitute for Denial but we could start a contest!

[knothead]

[quote="skram"][quote="Indyellen"

FX negatives:
- had some leak issues
- when leaked, got loud - issue for both me and my wife
- my wife said it was louder than any other mask I tried and she didn't like the venting when it pointed towards her


Not suppose to vent towards the wife...lol How do you think I got the name "Knothead".

[digitalepiphany]

I am going in for eyelid reduction surgery (increase eyesight range) next month which will include a slight brow lift at the same time. So I can't wear anything on the forehead while it heals. I asked the tech if he had any hybrid masks as I am a mouth breather. He said they have not had good sucess with Hybrid masks and don't carry them in their stock there. He only had one Resmed Liberty in small and another mouth only mask a Fisher Pakel Oracle™ 452 Oral Mask.
So I'll have to see whether I can even use CPAP until the stitches come out. I hate facing a week or so without the CPAP as I have finally gotten my AHI's down to under 5 since the new set up and mask. I finally feel like I am "winning".
Anyone have another suggestion for something that does not have forehead supports?

By the way - I agree with you the VA is a great deal. And all of the vets I see there claim the Wichita one is one of the best - with patients all the way from Oklahoma and even Nebraska driving all the way to get there. I feel very lucky to be getting care there.

If anyone agrees with me on this, feel free to chime in, but I don't think the oracle would work for most people. It's normal to breathe through your nose when asleep. It's not normal to breathe through your mouth (a lot of us do though, at least enough that it requires a mask that covers the mouth). Unless you physically cannot breathe through your nose, I'd steer clear of the Oracle. You don't notice it, but your body naturally switches to nasal breathing.

As far as other masks, you could try the Quattro FX, the Mirage Liberty, or the Innomed Hybrid (it's listed in the VA books as being made by DeVillBiss). I've been having good success with keeping the leaks to a minimum on the Hybrid. I had to use whitebeard's fix to keep the pillows in place and the thing seals fine now. The mouth piece seals great once you get the pillows to stop leaking. Before the fix, I kept having to adjust the top straps to seal the pillows. Of course, that just caused the top part of the mouth cushion to leak. Whitebeard's fix keeps the pillows sealed separately from the top straps, so you can loosen them up and get a good seal on the mouth cushion. In your situation, however, if you wind up having trouble keeping the pillows sealed on the Hybrid, you won't be able to use the same fix that I'm using. At least not while recovering from surgery. So, it's back to the Quattro FX.

Is there any reason you can't use nasal pillows or masks? The Swift FX has a very minimal head gear design, and the pillows seal great. The Resmed Nano nasal mask uses the same headgear, and the mask itself is very minimal as well (this is one mask I really wish I could try, but I mouth leak too much). There are other pillow masks that have gotten rave reviews as well. Are pillows and nasal masks an option for you? *EDIT* I just reread your post and saw that you're a mouth breather, so pillows and nasal masks are out. My question regarding breathing through your nose, however, is still valid.

If your guy at the VA says they don't have anything in stock, that doesn't mean they can't order it. I live in Lubbock, go to the Amarillo VA, and all of my masks have been shipped from a DME in Denver. The only mask they had in stock was the piece of crap nasal mask they gave me when they issued my machine. Since then, all of my masks had to ordered by the VA.

**EDIT** I call my guy at the VA at least twice a week about one issue or another. I feel bad sometimes (I have his direct number) because I know he's busy (this is the VA after all), but this is also my health and my medical treatment. You may not have a crystal ball, but you're in the best position to make these decisions for you, not them. If you think the Hybrid would work for you better than the Liberty (for example), there's probably a reason for that. Maybe it was something that you read here, that you don't consciously remember. Either way, his decision on your masks is going to be based on his clinical experience with other patients. You can't talk to those patients to see why some mask or other didn't work. Instead, you have this forum, and can ask us. Stand your ground with masks, and ye shall receive.

[DEXSUZ]

I tried the QA a few months ago and it worked well. As time went on, however, the bones that make up the side of my nose became very (I mean VERY) sore and red from the edge of the mask riding atop those bones. The DME provided me with several small aids but they either caused leaks or were ineffective.

In the end, I went back to my old Quattro FX with its PadACheek.com padding and all is well. And yes, the bones on my nose are now back to normal.

As several people on here have stated, it may have come down to the size/shape of my face being a bad match for the QA.

Best wishes and patience!

[skram]

Well, home now and got to look at the data. Turns out that even though it seemed like the leaks weren't bad, the data shows that the Air leaked more than any other mask I used. I'm not going to take that at face value though since, as mentioned, I had congestion issues. I will try the mask for several nights and then see what the data shows.

[OldSarge]

Digital
Thanks - you made some good points.
Actually I have been seeing the Wichita R/Tech on almost a three week or monthly basis since he has seen me each time I was in for the various Optometrist , then Opthamalogist, then each cataract surgery etc. I live about 90 miles north of Wichita so until surgery again in early March I won't be there physically. My primary care Dr is 30 miles away in Salina at the outclinic.
I DO have very heavy blockage from constant nasal congestion and we were both trying to avoid nasal masks for this reason. I was tested with nasal during my sleep study and it did not work very well. When I was a kid I had my tonsils out once and my adenoids four times. Still have the congestion. Lucky me.
About 30 minutes to one hour into CPAP usage on the full face masks I find my nasal passages opening up - a good thing. In fact the way the Amara mask is made the central pressure force is directed equally to the nose area. So it opens my nose up even better.

I have been wondering about the hybrid mask to see if it would "walk" me into a nasal mask later. But I think he wants to get me thru the post surgery time period - the one week before the stitches are taken out and whatever period after that. I'm sure the forehead supports would really raise hell with the stitches.

You mentioned you stay in touch with your Tech. I have done so as well, normally on Secure Messaging on the VA system. He gets back with me suprisingly soon. I really like the Tech - and he uses a CPAP also. So he has user experience also to share.

I'll see how the Liberty fits (They are only made in small and large - I use medium Quattro and Amara FF) and look at the Oracle. Then maybe ask for one of the hybrids to be ordered after I get thru the post op period. I would really like to be able to read when wearing the mask. I can see a truck from a mile, but can't read without glasses since the cataracts were taken out. Can't read the CPAP screen close up. I have to hold the glasses against the forehead strut of the mask to see what i'm doing on the humidifier. LOL

I'm trying to be reasonable with the tax dollars as I really appreciate the support the VA has given me. (FYI - I am not rated Service connected. My zero co-pay is from PH class)

Thanks for relating your experience. You are right - this forum gives us a great source of knowledge.

[Denial Dave]

one of these days, I'm going to put my mad scientist hat on and merge the Quattro, Quattro AIR and the new F & P Simplus into one mask.

The light feel of the AIR combined with the forehead support & headgear on the F & P Simplus, then mix in the frame size & shape of the Quattro... it'll have a double wall cushion for comfort.

LOL

That's exactly what I'd want so please don't take too long,! BTW, have you thought about changing your user name? I can't think of a good substitute for Denial but we could start a contest!

I was in denial for 17 years about sleep apnea & my name is Dave. Thus Denial Dave. I'm open to suggestions.

[digitalepiphany]

Digital
Thanks - you made some good points.
Actually I have been seeing the Wichita R/Tech on almost a three week or monthly basis since he has seen me each time I was in for the various Optometrist , then Opthamalogist, then each cataract surgery etc. I live about 90 miles north of Wichita so until surgery again in early March I won't be there physically. My primary care Dr is 30 miles away in Salina at the outclinic.
I DO have very heavy blockage from constant nasal congestion and we were both trying to avoid nasal masks for this reason. I was tested with nasal during my sleep study and it did not work very well. When I was a kid I had my tonsils out once and my adenoids four times. Still have the congestion. Lucky me.
About 30 minutes to one hour into CPAP usage on the full face masks I find my nasal passages opening up - a good thing. In fact the way the Amara mask is made the central pressure force is directed equally to the nose area. So it opens my nose up even better.
You had an in-house sleep study? Luck you. I had to do the take-home study. Even after being on CPAP for 3 months and dealing with TONS of CAs, the most they did was issue me a BiPAP and guess what pressures I needed. No in-shouse study, no titration. Granted, they actually got the pressure right, but that's beside the point.

I have been wondering about the hybrid mask to see if it would "walk" me into a nasal mask later. But I think he wants to get me thru the post surgery time period - the one week before the stitches are taken out and whatever period after that. I'm sure the forehead supports would really raise hell with the stitches.
I wouldn't look at it that way. If anything, the hybrids will help you adjust to nasal pillows, not nasal masks. Even then, the amount of force that's applied on the hybrids just to keep the pillows in place is WAY more than you'll need when using something like the Swift FX nasal pillows.

Have you tried using a nasal mask or nasal pillows while taping your mouth shut? Some people also use polygrip cream or strips. That helped me at lower pressures, but when I moved to BiPAP, the pressure was too high for those to be effective. BTW, you don't have your pressure(s) listed with your equipment. If you really want something that doesn't touch your forehead, this would be your best bet, assuming taping/polygrip works for you. It's a bit more prep work before bed, but you may not mind that. Speaking of not wanting to waste taxpayers money (below), I wouldn't ask the VA for a Swift FX, or something similar, just so you can try taping/polygrip. You'll only need to use it one night to see if you still mouth leak with those methods.

You mentioned you stay in touch with your Tech. I have done so as well, normally on Secure Messaging on the VA system. He gets back with me suprisingly soon. I really like the Tech - and he uses a CPAP also. So he has user experience also to share.
What's secure messaging, and how do I access it?

I'll see how the Liberty fits (They are only made in small and large - I use medium Quattro and Amara FF) and look at the Oracle. Then maybe ask for one of the hybrids to be ordered after I get thru the post op period. I would really like to be able to read when wearing the mask. I can see a truck from a mile, but can't read without glasses since the cataracts were taken out. Can't read the CPAP screen close up. I have to hold the glasses against the forehead strut of the mask to see what i'm doing on the humidifier. LOL
I wouldn't go with a pillow system (the Liberty and Hybrid both use them) if you have severe congestion issues. At least not until after your surgery. One side of my nose is always congested, depending on which side is facing down. I never gave this much thought till I started using pillows and the hybrid masks (I've used the Liberty and Hybrid). I couldn't get the liberty to seal around my mouth, so he ordered the Hybrid for me. The Hybrid seals around my mouth perfectly, but the pillows don't. I've discovered that the problem isn't with the pillows, but with my congestion. If my right nostril is congested, that pillow leaks. If my left nostril is congested, that pillow leaks. I'm still waiting for an ENT appointment, but until then, the only way I could keep the pillows from leaking (not 100% leak free mind you, but as close as I can get it) is to use whitebeard's fix. With your upcoming surgery, you will not be able to use this fix, which means that you won't be able to use a hybrid mask until after you've healed.

I also want to clarify, just in case you're not aware of this, that the Resmed Mirage Liberty and the Innomed Hybrid are both hybrid masks. This means that they have a cushion that goes around the mouth, with pillows attached at the top. So, when you talk about a hybrid mask, that is different than talking about the Hybrid mask. One or both may work for you, but you'll most likely have to use whitebeard's fix because of your congestion issues.

I used the modified version of whitebeard's fix which can be found here: viewtopic.php?p=446053#p446053

This is a pic of whitebeard, using his version. As you can see, you won't be able to do this post-surgery.


I'm trying to be reasonable with the tax dollars as I really appreciate the support the VA has given me. (FYI - I am not rated Service connected. My zero co-pay is from PH class)
I'm not SC either. I should be, but Bethesda conveniently lost those records. Regardless, I'm in the same boat as you, but I don't worry about "wasting" taxpayers money. I've paid my fair share of taxes over the years, and if it takes $2,000-worth of masks before I find the right one (highly unlikely), that's a drop in the bucket. Besides, I'm useless to society with untreated sleep apnea. Don't let thoughts of burdening the system dissuade you from getting the best possible care you can get. The same goes for all of you on Medcare/Medicaid. It's a benefit for a reason. Don't think that by using it you're abusing it.

Speaking of not abusing it, I'm gonna ask my VA guy next time what he wants me to do with all of the other masks that didn't work out. I want to give them to someone that can't afford them on their own, but want to make sure that I'm not breaking some VA rule.

Thanks for relating your experience. You are right - this forum gives us a great source of knowledge.

Basically, what it comes down to is this:

You need something without anything touching your forehead because of surgery.
This rules out all FFMs except the Resmed Quattro FX and the Sleepweaver Anew (I know the VA is limited on brands, so this one may not be available).
I know there are more out there, but these are the ones I know. Just ask your sleep tech about FFM w/o forehead gear availability.
Technically, hybrid masks are FFMs, but I'll discuss them below for other reasons.

You mouth breathe (or, at the very least, mouth leak). This rules out all nasal pillows and nasal masks, with one caveat.
You may be able to solve this by tape/polygrip. If so, this would be your best bet to avoid forehead gear.
The Resmed Nano is the only mask that comes to mind that lacks forehead gear. I know there are others.

You have severe congestion.
This, to me, rules out all nasal masks, nasal pillows, and hybrid FFMs, at least until you get the congestion issue solved.

You have surgery coming up
Coupled with your severe congestion, which would necessitate whitebeard's hybrid fix, this rules out the hybrid FFMs.

So, you're basically stuck right now with trying to find a FFM with no forehead gear that works for you.
Once your surgery is over, you can use any mask with forehead gear.
Once you fix your congestion and mouth breathing/leaking, you can look into nasal masks, nasal pillows and hybrids.

Hope that wasn't too long winded.