Anyone putting meds in their heated humidifier?

dllfo · Post by **dllfo** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:01 am

I have been traveling and had a major problem. My Auto BiPap was set at
4/16, but I wasn't getting enough air in my lungs. About 2am I gave up and
turned the Auto Bipap back to its original 4/25. With that setting I was able
to sleep 7 hours.

My big question is ...do any of you put medications in the water of the heated humidifier? I would like to put Xopenex or Albuterol Sulphate in. I left a msg with my doctor, but with me on the road we have been playing telephone tag. My machine uses about 80% of the water I put in every night.

Ric · Post by **Ric** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:26 am

IMHO, that is not a good idea. The prevailing wisdom suggests putting NOTHING in the HH other than distilled water, for a long list of very good reasons. As for using it as a medication delivery system, I can see a host of problems.

First off, you will have a dosage issue, how much over what period of time, what if you don't finish the whole HH full, etc., and how can you be sure you won't get too much for a given time interval, as in overdose. And why do you suppose albuterol or xopenex will even evaporate? My guess (without looking it up) is that it will all stay in solution and go nowhere. As simple and convenient as it sounds, it is really not as simple as it sounds.

Secondly, don't confuse the humidifier with a nebulizer. A nebulizer makes tiny droplets of whatever liquid you put into it, nothing needs to actually "evaporate". By contrast, a humidifier relies on evaporation. It would be unlikely the vapor pressure of your medication dissolved in warm water would in fact deliver ANY of what you thought you were getting. It would probably sit there and form a crust on the sides of the plastic. (more guesswork on my part).

I sympathize with your perceived need for something else to help you sleep. The traditional delivery methods are pretty well worked out, I would recommend that you stay with what works. And stay with distilled water in the HH.

-Ric

dllfo · Post by **dllfo** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:17 am

Good point Ric, I am still using the conventional methods right now. I used the nebulizer last night and was able to sleep most of the night.

We are on the coast now, so maybe the fresh, clean air will help.

My brother made an interesting observation back in the 70s, when he was living in LA....he asked how we could trust air we couldn't even see?? Food for thought.

Snoozin' Bluezzz · Post by **Snoozin' Bluezzz** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:26 am

dllfo wrote:My brother made an interesting observation back in the 70s, when he was living in LA....he asked how we could trust air we couldn't even see?? Food for thought.

Yeah, LA had air you could chew on for sure. Don't know if it is still that way. I was in SD in 1970-71 and we would go up to LA every so often and when you got to Orange County the air started turning brown or orange sometimes.

David

Fubar2u · Post by **Fubar2u** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:05 pm

If you realy wanted to do some rigging up...
an inline feed from nebulizer between humidifer and mask .
Main problem I see is very low pressure from meds input and high pressure on hose line. A one way valve and small input should suck it into the main hose.

Fromaginator · Post by **Fromaginator** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:25 pm

[quote="dllfo"]I have been traveling and had a major problem. My Auto BiPap was set at
4/16, but I wasn't getting enough air in my lungs. About 2am I gave up and
turned the Auto Bipap back to its original 4/25. With that setting I was able
to sleep 7 hours.

My big question is ...do any of you put medications in the water of the heated humidifier? I would like to put Xopenex or Albuterol Sulphate in. I left a msg with my doctor, but with me on the road we have been playing telephone tag. My machine uses about 80% of the water I put in every night.

_________________

I use a neb w/albuterol as well - you got a great response, but I would also add the caveat:

Taking a neb treatment - especially leaving it going over a long period of time is the equivalent of taking adrenaline....you'd end up with the opposite effect - able to breathe, but "awake" - wouldn't exactly help you sleep.

And, being a med, it will eventually leave a crust on your machine and tubing if you don't rinse it out meticulously and immediately after use. There'd be a risk of inhaling particles of the dried med that get stuck in the crevices of the tube. Sounds like a stretch - but if you've ever neglected to clean the neb machine container right after you use it - you'd see what I mean.

If you're feeling a need to add meds in order to be comfortable or to breathe fully - it might be time to see a doc and rule out a flare-up of asthma/constriction/etc. Traveling can be enough of a change to bring on a problem, and in my case, anyway, I don't always realize at first that my asthma was flaring up. The increased pressure on your auto-pap working out vs. the original is what makes me wonder if it isn't just a case of a flare-up?

Best of luck to you in getting things figured out!

Sinister_Girl · Post by **Sinister_Girl** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:19 pm

[quote="Ric"]And stay with distilled water in the HH.

-Ric

RedThunder94 · Post by **RedThunder94** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:22 pm

[quote="Sinister_Girl"][quote="Ric"]And stay with distilled water in the HH.

-Ric

birdshell · Post by **birdshell** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:19 pm

The RT's all recommend distilled water. I have only done CPAP for about 2 months, so in the beginning I e-mailed ResMed, asking about the minimum amount of distilled water required for safe operation of the humidifier. (I was throwing away almost 2 cups of distilled water daily.)

Now, this is just for what it is worth:

A ResMed representative e-mailed me back. She said that the humidifier could use tap water IF it was discarded daily. She further said that the distilled water could be used for a couple of nights. (Please note that she did NOT answer my specific question. )

This surprised me, so I am using distilled water and washing my humidifier chamber daily. Weekly, I wash it and soak it in a 1:4 vinegar-to-water solution. Then I rinse it well in hot tap water and air dry. The same goes for the hose, humidifier cover and seal, and any part of the mask that can take it! This is the regime recommended by my RT, so until I get my OWN RT certification I will follow her advice.

However, if by chance I get caught without distilled water or I am going away for a few nights, it is good to know that tap water can be used in a pinch.

Also, the vinegar treatment should remove calcification. The RT at my DME provider said one could use anything from a 1:4 vinegar-to-water solution to a 1:10 vinegar-to-water solution for a 30 minute to 1 hour soak. For calcification, the 1:4 would probably be a better choice.

Where I live, we seem to get a fair bit of calcium in the water (which comes from Lake Huron!) and use a fair amount of vinegar to remove it where it seems to collect and dry into a rock. We also add a fair bit of chlorine to the water to sanitize it, so should one use tap water--the chlorine will be inspired into one's lungs. Of course, when the water is drunk, the same chlorine goes into one's body.

Sigh. Life is a series of choices, with tradeoffs for each. Good luck in choosing!

Sinister_Girl · Post by **Sinister_Girl** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:40 pm

[quote="birdshell"]The RT's all recommend distilled water. I have only done CPAP for about 2 months, so in the beginning I e-mailed ResMed, asking about the minimum amount of distilled water required for safe operation of the humidifier. (I was throwing away almost 2 cups of distilled water daily.)

Now, this is just for what it is worth:

A ResMed representative e-mailed me back. She said that the humidifier could use tap water IF it was discarded daily. She further said that the distilled water could be used for a couple of nights. (Please note that she did NOT answer my specific question. )

This surprised me, so I am using distilled water and washing my humidifier chamber daily. Weekly, I wash it and soak it in a 1:4 vinegar-to-water solution. Then I rinse it well in hot tap water and air dry. The same goes for the hose, humidifier cover and seal, and any part of the mask that can take it! This is the regime recommended by my RT, so until I get my OWN RT certification I will follow her advice.

However, if by chance I get caught without distilled water or I am going away for a few nights, it is good to know that tap water can be used in a pinch.

Also, the vinegar treatment should remove calcification. The RT at my DME provider said one could use anything from a 1:4 vinegar-to-water solution to a 1:10 vinegar-to-water solution for a 30 minute to 1 hour soak. For calcification, the 1:4 would probably be a better choice.

Where I live, we seem to get a fair bit of calcium in the water (which comes from Lake Huron!) and use a fair amount of vinegar to remove it where it seems to collect and dry into a rock. We also add a fair bit of chlorine to the water to sanitize it, so should one use tap water--the chlorine will be inspired into one's lungs. Of course, when the water is drunk, the same chlorine goes into one's body.

Sigh. Life is a series of choices, with tradeoffs for each. Good luck in choosing!

3islesnotguest · Post by **3islesnotguest** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:10 pm

Hi
can't sign in, I am in the hospital ,staying with my daughter
who came in with pneumonia and other bad stuff and
is still pretty sick, which is bad, but because of this
I have a possible suggestion for using albuterol with
cpap (?)
anyway
she is intubated, on a vent and they have an inline
neblulizer called Aeroneb pro. I don't know if it would
fit cpap hose, it is very small, and has a little plug in part
that attaches to it by a pretty long cord, and it only delivers
the dose put in, so you wouldn't be getting the treatment
all night, and it would not mess up the humidifier, and it
is a real tiny neb. The resp therapist said its only been out
a year, I haven't searched it yet so I can't give you a link,
but I bet you can find it.

Cathy
polaris ex
IQ mask
pres. 13
actually using my cpap everynight on the couch in her room
a new experience sleeping with the mask in public...sort of.

dllfo · Post by **dllfo** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:47 pm

Cathy, I have never heard of an aerobeb, but my Omron NE-U22 is smaller
than a pack of cigarettes. I carry it in my shirt pocket and use it as I drive
at times. I had to buy it on my own, but it has been worth it.

I have combined the use of albuterol and then the use of xopenex later. It
seems to be working. We are in Anacortes, WA now and I am able to breathe
some better. I am staying inside.

And yes, I am using distilled water, the wife and I go through a lot of it.

I was hoping there might be a way to ....to...not have to sit around during the day with the nebulizer stuck in my face. Guess it is just the price I pay to breathe.

The Auto Bipap is wonderful. I cannot imagine life without it. But Ric hit the
nail on the head I think...until I find the "right nebulizer" I will continue to do
it the old fashioned way. But it sure sounded like a good idea while on the drawing board......

3islesnotguest · Post by **3islesnotguest** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:55 pm

aeroneb.respironics.com
there is a picture, its more the size of a small yo-yo.
Cathy

dllfo · Post by **dllfo** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:28 pm

Thanks Cathy. I will look for it...I guess it makes sense that Respironics makes it, since it works with our breathing gear.

dllfo · Post by **dllfo** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:55 am

OK....I must have hurt my nebulizer's feelings with this thread...it died tonight.
Soooo I thought I might look for a nebulizer designed for use with the auto
bipap.

Aeroneb IS used on breathing machines....like in a hospital. Not sure it would
work with the auto bipap.

It is 3:55am. I haven't been up at that time since I got my auto bipap. but
I am having trouble breathing period. I will try it again in a few minutes, but
wanted to toss that idea out there....might try to find DME_Guy to ask him.

Anyone ever used the aeroneb??

Anyone putting meds in their heated humidifier?

Anyone putting meds in their heated humidifier?

Re: Anyone putting meds in their heated humidifier?

Tap vs. Distilled Water

Re: Tap vs. Distilled Water

Mask