OT: Repeating Pattern of Bullying & Locked Threads

[Stom]

I'm sorry, did you just move the goalposts by comparing internet "bullying" to outright sexual harassment in order to better try to prove your point?

Nope. It's a reference to people who are considered too "important" to hold accountable. It just so happens that one of the kinds of bad behaviors that is often overlooked in such cases that is eventually sued over is sexual harassment. Bullying happens too, but it's probably even more tolerated and harder to sue for. Some insurance companies have become cautious about insuring industries where "star players" are seen as important and given a pass on bad behavior.

"“Sales mentality industries have been in deep trouble from an employment practices standpoint and maybe always will be,” he said. That puts car dealerships and stock brokerage firms on insurers’ high-risk lists, he said. Some of the best salespeople can be “a little egotistical and a little tone deaf and a little locker-roomy,” Betterley explained, adding that management often shields big producers when harassment complaints are made. Law firms, which can have their own culture of tolerating aggressive behavior by high-billing rainmakers, are similarly viewed by harassment insurers as high risk."

https://theintercept.com/2019/02/02/wor ... nce-metoo/

Your post followed those lines exactly, saying how important the bully is as an excuse for his bad behavior.

Edit: Once again, if you don't like the behavior of someone else, use the functions provided by this forum and virtually every single other form of communication in an online environment that is designed and put in place for the very reason that you're talking about. At this point, it seems like people are deliberately not using those tools just so they can complain about something.

Yeah, no. The ignore list function won't stop the bully from bullying new posters.

And as to your earlier claim that "We cannot change who or what other people are", it misses the point. The bully behaves himself on the other forum because they enforce the rules. He's a bully here because enablers like you and the loose modding allow him to be. He's fully capable of better behavior and of not bullying people when he's held accountable. You are determined to insure that he is not.

[zonker]

I'm done with the charades, off to greener pastures.

i, for one, hope this doesn't mean you are done with the forum, but merely with this topic.

[zonker]

i don't go to apnea board. as i've said in this thread or elsewhere, i don't care for the text box format. too much white glaring space.

so i don't know how this is handled there. what exactly are the steps taken to discourage bullying and (apparently) sexual harassment at apnea board?

[Stom]

so i don't know how this is handled there. what exactly are the steps taken to discourage bullying and (apparently) sexual harassment at apnea board?

Modding. Just ordinary modding, as most forums use. (I'm not specifically aware of any sexual harassment on either site.) Regular modding tools include cleaning up threads by deleting posts that violate the stated forum rules for behavior (and, sometimes, cleaning subsequent arguments engendered by such posts), flagging violations, user suspensions and user bans for egregious and/or cumulative violations. The exact same tools available at this forum but are used rarely.

There are some complaints that the other forum is over-modded. And that may be true to some degree, perhaps as much as this one is under-modded, but the only issue I've had there is their (IMO) misguided rule that prohibits hyperlinks to any potentially commercial site, including this forum (as it is essentially corporate owned). Instead, users cryptically refer to commercial sites as "Vendor number 1" or some such based on an obscure list of vendors posted to the site. I think he other forum should upgrade their templates to look less like the 1990s and also change their servers to HTTPS for better google rankings, but they don't have a corporate sponsor to pay the bills, so I can't really fault them much for that.

[zonker]

so i don't know how this is handled there. what exactly are the steps taken to discourage bullying and (apparently) sexual harassment at apnea board?

Modding. Just ordinary modding, as most forums use. (I'm not specifically aware of any sexual harassment on either site.) Regular modding tools include cleaning up threads by deleting posts that violate the stated forum rules for behavior (and, sometimes, cleaning subsequent arguments engendered by such posts), flagging violations, user suspensions and user bans for egregious and/or cumulative violations. The exact same tools available at this forum but are used rarely.

AFAIK, the mod here does not really want to do that. pugsy herself, earlier in this thread-

You know I was curious about just how many threads have been locked so I just spent a little while looking over the moderator logs which tells me every time I do something or Carolyn does something or even when you guys delete your own stuff.
Since the first of the year there have been 5 instances of topics being locked.

This one today...
the one Carolyn did a couple of weeks ago...
one I locked first of March because it had become a cesspool of disgusting name calling and went way off topic...and people were warned to stop but they just couldn't keep their mouths shut
and 2 others in Feb that you all wouldn't have known about or noticed.
Both were topics written by a spammer and people responded so rather than just delete the spam I locked the thread and removed the spam links.
So really 3 locks for threads going way off topic or becoming nothing but cesspools...since the first of the year.
Quite a pattern....
I am fairly certain that on that other forum it would happen 3 times a day ....if it was that active and people could actually speak their mind over at the other forum.

No one is every totally happy with how discussions go. Some will bitch because of not enough censorship is done and others will bitch because they think that any censorship is too much censorship.
Johnny leans towards any censorship is too much censorship....that's where he goes and how he thinks. If you don't agree or don't like it then I don't know what else to say but go somewhere else that suits you better. He's not going to change just to make you happy or me happy or anyone happy but himself. It is his sandbox after all. We play in it at his leisure...if we don't like it then we have the choice to either learn to accept it or move on to someone else's sandbox.

My own personal feelings really don't matter....I do the forum owner's bidding as best as I can given the tools I am given and the guidelines I was given to follow.

Remember the alphabet boy.....that sort of discord won't ever happen again and if it takes me locking 10 threads a day to prevent it then I will do it. So far we haven't even remotely come close to that sort of disruption and I plan to do everything in my power to not let it happen again. If it means that the entire class gets punished for what one rowdy class member might do...then so be it.
We won't be having a repeat of what was happening with the alphabet boy....not on my watch.

So I try to throw water on the fire in an attempt to put it out by locking threads that have become infernos or on the edge of blowing up in hopes that with a little break cooler heads will prevail (and my cooling off gets a chance to happen as well because I know full well I need to cool off too) ....it's either that or I start deleting and editing you guys comments and removing the nastiness you spew.....and we know exactly how Johnny would feel if I did that.

so i'm uncertain how bringing up how palerider is nicer on the other board than here has any real relevance. it's been stated that the two forums are different.

could you explain?

[Stom]

so i'm uncertain how bringing up how palerider is nicer on the other board than here has any real relevance. it's been stated that the two forums are different.

could you explain?

It's stated right in my post. It was a response to Midwest_non_sleeper's claim that "We cannot change who or what other people are" and thus can't change a bully's behavior. That is false. There is no need to change who or what the poster "is", it is only necessary to prohibit their problematic behavior here in the forum. The fact that the bully can behave better in the other forum is proof that the bully's behavior is voluntary and that modding can do here what it does there.

Folks can say "Hey, this is a loosely modded forum, so no!" and since it is a loosely modded forum I can say "You should! Bullying should be unacceptable everywhere, even by 'important' people."

[zonker]

Folks can say "Hey, this is a loosely modded forum, so no!" and since it is a loosely modded forum I can say "You should! Bullying should be unacceptable everywhere, even by 'important' people."

OH! so you are merely complaining and not urging any particular action, then?

[colomom]

Stom,

Thanks for your thoughts! It's nice to hear from you as you are indeed "one of the ladies" who gets abused daily by the ringleader! - - And you'd think one of the other ladies who are members of CPAPTalk would come to your defense, but they of course don't want to "rock their little boat"! - - So unfortunately, all you'll hear from here are the clique/gang who think it's "perfectly acceptable" to harass/abuse ladies...and men too!!!

Incidentally, a while back I speculated that maybe the reason the ringleader lashes out at unsuspecting members like Chalkie is he might have a "short guy complex" or an "inferiority complex", but I was corrected by someone recently telling me that was probably not the case at all...

Thanks KnightSleeper for explaining this to all us ladies! Silly me, I had the crazy misconceptions that:
1. Stom’s postings demonstrate that she is a strong, opinionated woman who doesn’t need anyone’s protection.
2. Woman are actually entitled to individual opinions.
In light of my huge failure to act as you believe all woman should, do I need to turn my woman card back into you?

Onto the broader topic...
You asked to hear from newbies, I guess that is me. I don’t post often, but the few times I have posted questions Palerider has been cordial and offered me helpful advice. I have noticed that Palerider and others don’t always have great filters and do sometimes make comments can at times that are off putting. I also notice that Palerider’s detractors are often guilty of frustrating newbies by derailing threads with the all to common you’re all a bunch of bullies montage.

I guess the bottom line as I see it is we are all here because we have sleep problems, which leads to a forum full of lots of grouchy people. I think Pugsy does a great job moderating, but as individuals we could all improve on moderating ourselves.

[Stom]

OH! so you are merely complaining and not urging any particular action, then?

There is no "merely" about it. I think the forum owner should change the board policy and prohibit bullying. Bullying should not be encouraged or condoned, nor does it look good for cpap.com to be associated with it.

Bringing public attention to topics like this may or may not lead to change. But saying nothing certainly only helps the status quo of condoning bullying and protecting "important" people in the forum from any consequences for bad behavior.

[zonker]

OH! so you are merely complaining and not urging any particular action, then?

There is no "merely" about it. I think the forum owner should change the board policy and prohibit bullying. Bullying should not be encouraged or condoned, nor does it look good for cpap.com to be associated with it.

Bringing public attention to topics like this may or may not lead to change. But saying nothing certainly only helps the status quo of condoning bullying and protecting "important" people in the forum from any consequences for bad behavior.

may i suggest contacting the goodman's directly and giving them your complaints?

because, it is my humble opinion that "merely" complaining about it here in the forum isn't going to lead to the change you want.

[Stom]

may i suggest contacting the goodman's directly and giving them your complaints?

because, it is my humble opinion that "merely" complaining about it here in the forum isn't going to lead to the change you want.

Could be, but changing the public sentiment can also have an effect. Not claiming I'm successful in doing that. It's very much an uphill battle in this forum.

[zonker]

may i suggest contacting the goodman's directly and giving them your complaints?

because, it is my humble opinion that "merely" complaining about it here in the forum isn't going to lead to the change you want.

Could be, but changing the public sentiment can also have an effect. Not claiming I'm successful in doing that. It's very much an uphill battle in this forum.

good luck and godspeed.

[Grace~~~]

may i suggest contacting the goodman's directly and giving them your complaints?

because, it is my humble opinion that "merely" complaining about it here in the forum isn't going to lead to the change you want.

Could be, but changing the public sentiment can also have an effect. Not claiming I'm successful in doing that. It's very much an uphill battle in this forum.

It's having the opposite effect on *me*.

Its making me ever more thankful for free speech.
There is no reason our words and thoughts should be moderated or monitored online or in writing.

We should be forever grateful when we can disagree using WORDS and not resort to physical dominance and violence.

Thank God for Johnny and CPAPtalk!

A little bit of freedom in the moderated cesspool that seems to be everywhere online lately.

[Stom]

It's having the opposite effect on *me*.

Its making me ever more thankful for free speech.
There is no reason our words and thoughts should be moderated or monitored online or in writing.

We should be forever grateful when we can disagree using WORDS and not resort to physical dominance and violence.

Thank God for Johnny and CPAPtalk!

A little bit of freedom in the moderated cesspool that seems to be everywhere online lately.

Your post seems contradictory. You decry the "cesspool" of "everywhere" else online and cheer lack of moderation in this forum as the answer to on-line cesspools. That doesn't make any sense to me.

Some people definitely prefer looser moderation, which I can see some advantages to, but your statement that "[t]here is no reason our words and thoughts should be moderated or monitored online or in writing" is at odds with the way many truly unmoderated comment sections devolve into rather unpleasant situations, and where plausible threats of violence and even death occur. The physical violence you are grateful for not having sometimes *starts* with words, words allowed to fester in un-moderated forums. Now, I don't think that cpaptalk has a problem with violence, and that even the loose modding here won't cross that line (or so I would hope), and I don't think you can attribute that to "freedom" and a lack of moderation. I think you may be unaware of just how much modding goes into quietly keeping threats of violence off the internet behind the scenes without you realizing it.

[Grace~~~]

I'm sure we have different definitions of cesspool.

A place where you can't speak freely is a cesspool to *me*.

...but as that "meanace" jnk... would say ~~~ "hey, that's just me".