Sleep without Ambien!!

[tonycog]

I started therapy in June of 2009 and I struggled mightily with it. My doctor prescribed Ambien to help me sleep. Since then, I have continued to use Ambien to sleep; about 20 months total. This has always bothered me, but I simply would not sleep without it. My doc told me not to worry about it, that Ambien was approved for continuous use. But I didn't want to need a pill to sleep.

I have made some efforts to improve my sleep habits. The book "Sound Sleep, Sound Mind" has been helpful, although I haven't finished it yet. One of the author's suggestions to turn the alarm clock around so that I could not see it has been very helpful.

I have had some heart issues, including an ablation last fall to correct my atrial fibrillation issue (successful so far!). I decided that while I was tackling the heart issues I would not worry about the sleeping pill issue and would take that one on after the AFib was taken care of. For the past 5 months I was reducing my Ambien use by taking only 1/2 of a pill (5mg). Then in late December I began to cut the pills into 1/3. On February 5 I decided to go from 1/3 to 1/4 of a 10 mg Ambien. When I realized how small a quarter of a pill was I decided that enough was enough. On February 6 I went all night without a sleeping pill for the first time in 20 months. My sleep was spotty - I woke up about every 1 or 2 hours (I'm not sure, the clock was turned away from me). But I always fell back asleep, so I declared it "Success". The second night I slept really well, nearly as good as when I was a teenager. On the morning after the second night without Ambien, I realized that I had dreamed at least two times that I was aware of. This was very exciting to me.

I have read, and confirmed with my doctor, that after long-term ambien use, tapering off works better than stopping cold-turkey. I read somewhere that you increase your chances of success by tapering off over weeks rather than days. That seems to have worked for me.

Since February 6 I have used a sleeping pill two nights; both nights were when I had a lot on my mind and decided to insure that I got some sleep. But this is great! I don't need a sleeping pill to sleep with my machine. Looking back, I know that the sleeping pills were very necessary while I adjusted to sleeping with the Bi-PAP ASV. The Servo-Ventilation part of my machine was a big challenge to adapt to and the pills got me through it. But, it seems apparent to me that sleep without sleeping pills is better. I know that I feel better knowing that I can again sleep when I choose to, without taking a pill.

I'm just sharing this with my sleep community friends. There may be others using sleeping pills who would like to be able to quit. Maybe this can be helpful.

Thanks,
Tony

[Kiss42day]

hi Tony , I am very new to site , my name is Alan , I have been on bipap now since 2008, I too have afib, I have had 4 ablations , my last was last week , I had the Cryo Ablation , I have done a lot of reading , they say our chances are a lot slimmer with apnea not treated to have ablations fail , I have had so many problems with mask not fitting,being frustrated and throwing mask on floor and going back to sleep I have 20 masks or so in a drawer, I would buy them without insurance , like you, did much better with the mirage quarttro , I just got the new fx and I can not wait till bed time ,I have to get the disipline to wear my mask when ever I lay down Thanks for your sharing about the ambien , thank god thats not a problem Today LOL , I am determined to lose 40 lbs and stay on bi pap untill i no longer have tounge stopping my breathing , I bet there are a lot of us on this site that have AFib , Thanks for sharing ...

[tonycog]

Hi Alan

You can read up on AFib and things that may help combat it at http://www.afibbers.net

Most AFibbers are magnesium deficient, for starters. Keeping your oxygen saturation up during sleep is also important - not only for AFib but for your entire body. The AFibbers web site has lots of good info (and many opinionated people) about AFib, diet, medications, procedures, etc., all as they relate to the AFib beast.

As for masks and leaks, I have discovered that sleeping on my side is the only way I can stay leak-free. Back-sleeping will cause leaks for me. I'm glad the FX is working for you. I want to try it some day, but my insurance won't buy one for me and I have better uses for $200 right now.

[robysue]

Can't say anything about the Afib.

But I do want to say: Congratulations on weaning yourself off the ambien!

I too am working my way through Sound Sleep, Sound Mind. While the author takes "good sleep hygiene" with a grain of salt and at one point tells folks not to get over worried about it, I know that for managing my semi-chronic insomnia (pre-CPAP) without sleeping pills, paying attention to good sleep hygiene was always critically important. Now that I'm fighting (and slowly winning) a battle with major insomnia that was triggered by my starting therapy, the largely pill-free approach designed by my PA has combined serious work on my already very good sleep hygiene together with a sleep restricted schedule. While I'd never recommend a sleep restricted schedule to anybody (or at least not without some medical supervision), I can say that practicing good sleep hygiene has been critical in my success so far.

So as you work to keep yourself off of the ambien, I'd strongly suggest paying attention to good sleep hygiene. In addition to the tried&true idea you learned from Sound Sleep, Sound Mind about giving up the visible clock when you are in bed, I'd suggest the following good hygiene practices are particularly important for managing insomnia and keeping it under control. (Dr. Krakow includes all of these in Sound Sleep, Sound Mind.)

• * Use the bed only for sleep and sex.
  
  * Recognize there is a big difference between feeling sleepy and feeling tired or exhausted. And remember that it is difficult to fall asleep if you are NOT sleepy regardless of how tired or exhausted you are.
  
  * Don't go to bed if you are not sleepy. And don't get worried about the time you finally do get sleepy enough to go to bed.
  
  * If you find yourself awake lying in bed for longer than 15 or 20 minutes (based on guessing the time and NOT looking at the clock) AND you're not making any progress in getting to sleep, go ahead and admit that you are no longer particularly sleepy. And get out of bed, go to a different room, and do something quiet and enjoyable until you start to feel sleepy. Reading a non-work related book is a good option. As is listening to quiet music. Wathcing tv or web browsing, however, are not so good because they tend to stimulate people more than relax them. And the particular kind of bluish light tvs and monitors omit can cause problems with sleep.

[tonycog]

* Recognize there is a big difference between feeling sleepy and feeling tired or exhausted. And remember that it is difficult to fall asleep if you are NOT sleepy regardless of how tired or exhausted you are.

His explanation of these differences was helpful to me. Learning to tell the difference has helped me avoid going to bed before I am sleepy, even if I am tired. Fixing sleep problems takes more discipline than I would have ever believed.

Thanks,
Tony

[chrisp]

I once used ambien, Clonazapam, Ambien w/clonazapam, Tri something, None worked more than a few weeks and it was a strugle to juggle these so I could sleep. Them I went off of them all. Used Tryptophan, valerian root and malatonin for while. Now I don't need anything to fall asleep. But I don't really sleep anyway. Kinda just snooze al night. Wahching late nite TV works the best. Booooooooooring....nod out.

[robysue]

Now I don't need anything to fall asleep. But I don't really sleep anyway. Kinda just snooze al night. Wahching late nite TV works the best. Booooooooooring....nod out.

The late night tv watching may be part of the reason you "don't really sleep" and "just snooze all night." For some people the particular kind of bluish light a TV emits disturbs the sleep cycles.

[avi123]

I'm just sharing this with my sleep community friends. There may be others using sleeping pills who would like to be able to quit. Maybe this can be helpful.

Thanks,
Tony

Tony you're great!

[Sir NoddinOff]

Most AFibbers are magnesium deficient, for starters.

I've been using LIfe-Flo magnesium oil rubbed on my belly at nighttime for a month and it does seem to help me relax before sleep - possibly it lowers my heart rate also, tho I still have to check that out. You can make your own super cheap solution of magnesium oil from epsom salts and water. Just google magnesium oil to find out the steps necessary. BTW, there's no oil it it. Somehow it just feels oily to the touch.

[tonycog]

That's interesting. I'm going to do some reading about that.

Thanks,
Tony