Morning Leakage?

Kody · Post by **Kody** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:01 pm

No, I'm not talking about urinary incontinence

I'm talking about my Mirage Quattro Full Face Mask. Seems like I've got a handle on the leaks at night, however right before I wake up in the morning it's leaking a lot. Seems like the slightest head movement will cause it to leak on the bottom corners. I don't want to tighten it down any more, it already looks like I slept face down on a chain link fence when I wake up. Because of the higher pressures I must have, the "floating" on the face thing doesn't work. Would it be condensation causing the morning leaks? Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:23 pm

Kody wrote:Would it be condensation causing the morning leaks? Any suggestions?

Moisture could be a factor. Also simple facial skin oils that accumulate during the night. Also, simply maybe more movement of the body during those wee hours. I don't use this type of mask but with my nasal pillows often my worst leaks come real close to wake up time.

All this and simply the fact that the full face mask has more surface area to keep a seal. More area to have a problem with.

Any thought to a mask liner to help with leak? Would also help if moisture or skin oils was part of the problem.
There are some to be purchased and some people make their own.
Padacheeks has one to purchase
http://www.padacheek.com/PAC_Maskliners.html

ameriken · Post by **ameriken** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:28 pm

Kody, you and I have the same machine, and it seems like at that time of the morning the pressures are getting pumped up high and blowing out the seals. Also, body sweat and oils are to blame and it seems like that's when they have really piled on.

I tried the mask liner and didn't have success. I heard about Lanolin in some threads and bought some yesterday from Walmart (you most likely have to get it in the baby section because it's primary purpose seems to be a nipple cream for nursing moms, the brand is Lanisoh). The tackiness of the lanolin helps keep the seal sticking to the skin and it's safe for the mask since it's not a petroleum based product. I used it last night and during the second hour I had a high leak, but after tightening the straps a bit, I had good luck the rest of the night. It does leave you with a greasy feeling when you wake up, but that's a small price to pay for a good seal.

BlackSpinner · Post by **BlackSpinner** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:34 pm

Kody wrote:No, I'm not talking about urinary incontinence

I'm talking about my Mirage Quattro Full Face Mask. Seems like I've got a handle on the leaks at night, however right before I wake up in the morning it's leaking a lot. Seems like the slightest head movement will cause it to leak on the bottom corners. I don't want to tighten it down any more, it already looks like I slept face down on a chain link fence when I wake up. Because of the higher pressures I must have, the "floating" on the face thing doesn't work. Would it be condensation causing the morning leaks? Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

By morning your face and jaw muscles are totally relaxed and in a different shape due to that and gravity.

Mary Z · Post by **Mary Z** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:37 pm

An old remedy for leaks (at least I haven't heard about it for a while) is silicone. Ricks silicone ear plugs rolled into a thin ribbon about the size of a pencil and applied around the edge of the mask helped me with leaks. You need to change it everyday and reapply at night. I would just take it off the mask, roll it in a ball and reuse. Since your leaks are only in the morning I don't know if this would help.
If the leaks wake you up (I hope not) maybe wiping your face and mask with a damp rag would help.
I understand the liners don't work for everyone, but they would be worth a try.
Good Luck.

LSAT · Post by **LSAT** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:03 pm

I have a similar problem with the Quattro. I have absolutely no problems with leaks until about 4-5 AM. I think that your facial muscles relax over night and it makes the mask loose in the AM. Also, If I make a bathroom stop I unhook the mask and wipe my face to remove moisture...after that I'm fine for a few hours.

Kody · Post by **Kody** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:39 pm

Wow all very good suggestions thanks a lot. It does make sense that your facial muscles would be the most relaxed at that time, along with skin oils playing a factor. I'll keep all your advice in mind as the Quattro so far seems to be the one that works best for me.

lullaby · Post by **lullaby** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:47 pm

I hear your pain Kody. Happens to me too. I've been wondering about this for a while now and have to agree that it's most probably our face muscles relaxing. I often find that not only has my face relaxed but my jaw has dropped which seems to change the shape of my face enough to cause leaks. I've tried 'predicting' these changes when putting on the mask at night and tightening the straps but this doesn't seem to work. Doing this has also resulted in me tightening the straps too much on some occasions. Not sure what else can be done?

donaldm823 · Post by **donaldm823** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:36 pm

I also had the same problem with my Mirage Quattro full face max. Started using RemZZZ cotton liners and they have worked wonders. No leakage especially in the wee hours of the morning. The only drawback, is that they cost almost $1/day
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/remzzz ... iners.html

RandyJ · Post by **RandyJ** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:39 pm

I have had the best luck with a mask liner and anti-leak strap from Padacheek. The latter wraps around my head and holds the Mirage Quattro in place; if it is slightly over-snug when I go to sleep, it seems to keep out the leaks until morning.

(I have read the blog called "Taming the Mirage Quattro" and follwed the recommendations but it didn't seem to work for me. I have best results with a snug mask.)

Lizzzabeth · Post by **Lizzzabeth** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:03 pm

I second the suggestion about the anti-leak strap. I've only been on bipap for 10 nights. I couldn't keep the mirage Liberty from leaking, despite mask liners, so I switched to the Mirage Quattro on Tuesday. I used mask liners cut from old T-shirt and had good luck except in the morning. I haven't had time to order an anti-leak strap from Pad-a-Cheek, but after reviewing their website, decided to make use of the otherwise useless ResMed chin strap by placing the cloth chin cup across the mask, just above the elbow, and adjust the strap around the back of my neck. Reduced my leaks--in fact I had 0 leaks during a one hour nap today and was even able to loosen up the bottom straps a little.

I'm going to try a nasal pillow and/or nasal mask too, since I'm learning I'm not such a moutbreather now that I have tolerable settings (bipap with easybreathe too). I have to prove that one using a borrowed mask since my prescription is only for a full face mask and I don't see the sleep doc for three more weeks. They just don't have time to chase down the variables in a overnight sleep study--they decided I needed a full face mask based on my trouble exhaling against the pressure, which forced my mouth open. Just goes to show you we need to be like scientists and labrats at home to optimize our comfort and treatment efficacy.

I did order a different chin strap even before I gave up on the Liberty. The Ruby chin strap seems a lot more useful in keeping my jaw from dropping. (I'll never use that ResMed chin strap for its intended purpose).

miketech · Post by **miketech** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:35 pm

I too have had leaks at 4-5AM. My opinion is that part of what is happening is that our bodies become dehydrated and the skin shrinks. I too don't believe in the "floating" mask theory. I think that what also is happening is that when I am getting into REM sleep, the muscles relax more, and then, my face turns downwards toward the pillow, and the mask gets pushed sideways causing a leak that wakes me up. I tried the pads, but didn't have success. I think I will order the strap.

n0hardmask · Post by **n0hardmask** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:02 am

donaldm823 wrote:I also had the same problem with my Mirage Quattro full face max. Started using RemZZZ cotton liners and they have worked wonders. No leakage especially in the wee hours of the morning. The only drawback, is that they cost almost $1/day
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/remzzz ... iners.html

How about a non-FFM that leaks after 4am? I use Sleepweaver cloth mask and am satisfied, except for the same problem: an hour or two before getting up, it goes to leaking. I haven't tried wiping down my face, yet, but might. I DID email Circadiance about the issue, but haven't gotten an answer back in over a month:

n0hardmask wrote: We have recently bought two of your masks and largely find them very comfortable. They do seem to leak after about 4-ish in the early morning and I’m wondering if there may be something we can do to avoid this. We both use Resmed machines –one older S8 Autoset Spirit w/ humidifier, and one newer Auto 25 vPAP w/ humidifier. They shouldn’t be drying out, though that’s the only thing I’ve thought of, after 6 or so hours of blowing air. Is there any process we can do to preserve and maintain their design (porousness)?

I'll keep watching this thread in case someone has a better answer.. this is a great forum with really experienced folks. earl

BlackSpinner · Post by **BlackSpinner** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:00 am

The respcare Hybrid mask solved this for me. Since it is really in two pieces (nasal pillows and mouth cover) it adjusts as the face changes. The chin flap helps keep it in place (and the mouth closed).
I only use the quatro when I have a cold.

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