cheaper option than Optima battery

[GumbyCT]

I hate to say it, because some folks don't believe it or have poor statistical data trying to prove it wrong, but if you go cheap, you too often get exactly what you pay for.

Exactly why I went with Sears. Who doesn't love a Diehard?

Plus this 1150 said the battery was "User Replaceable", well so are the others with some determination. The point is there is a Sears almost everywhere.

NO Assembly Required - just Plug n (charge) then Play

[archangle]

I hate to say it, because some folks don't believe it or have poor statistical data trying to prove it wrong, but if you go cheap, you too often get exactly what you pay for.

Unfortunately, you often pay a lot more money and still end up with something that isn't any better. Price does not infer quality, in either direction.

http://www.amazon.com/Wattgate-Audio-Du ... s=wattgate

[Dan Jacobs]

Unfortunately, you often pay a lot more money and still end up with something that isn't any better. Price does not infer quality, in either direction.

That is a good point, as many have been taken by the simple thought of "bigger $$ is better". ask anyone that has owned a Jaguar!

Maybe I try to explain a little?

Comparing a flat plate to an AGM battery is almost apples and oranges. There is a reason a quality AGM battery costs more, and it isn't window dressing. Same thing comparing AGM to Li, the Li is a better battery for storage, deep cycling, and faster recharging, but they aren't cheap, and often cannot be used with any old charger that you can find hanging on a peg at WalMart or Harbor Freight. There'a a really good reason for that, you'll damage the battery and have a very expensive paperweight.

I can buy a lead acid deep cycle battery that was made in Asia and pay less for it at a store where no one knows anything about the battery, for not much money. If I need help, they will simply point to their warranty policy and apologize for not knowing more, maybe. I can buy the same battery at Costco and get better service from people that know slightly more than the first store, get a better warranty, and more locations to get warranty service.

Climbing the ladder, if you will, from there generally should get me a better battery, better service, and a better warranty. If i go to NAPA auto parts and buy their premium battery, it will be expensive, but think of all the NAPA stores I can take it to if i have a problem. For batteries, in my experience, this has been the case. The reason some manufacturers like Optima demand the prices they do is because of how they expect their dealers to take care of an Optima customer and the better warranty, not because they simply think the cool name is worth more.

I buy good batteries and take care of them. Now that I have that philosophy and practice, I pay less in the long run. I can only make suggestions based on my experince. Every one else can, and often will, do exactly as they like, and I really do wish them the best. If things don't turn out well, I won't say I told you so.

Because I already have. (<--- That is, I said, that is a joke! Now you laugh!)

[archangle]

An AGM battery is mostly a lead acid battery with a "sponge" in the cell so the water can't spill out if you turn it over. There's also some changes to keep it from using up the water. Other than that, there isn't much advantage vs. a deep cycle lead acid battery.

[Sparky223]

Unfortunately, you often pay a lot more money and still end up with something that isn't any better. Price does not infer quality, in either direction.

That is a good point, as many have been taken by the simple thought of "bigger $$ is better". ask anyone that has owned a Jaguar!

Maybe I try to explain a little?

Comparing a flat plate to an AGM battery is almost apples and oranges. There is a reason a quality AGM battery costs more, and it isn't window dressing. Same thing comparing AGM to Li, the Li is a better battery for storage, deep cycling, and faster recharging, but they aren't cheap, and often cannot be used with any old charger that you can find hanging on a peg at WalMart or Harbor Freight. There'a a really good reason for that, you'll damage the battery and have a very expensive paperweight.

I can buy a lead acid deep cycle battery that was made in Asia and pay less for it at a store where no one knows anything about the battery, for not much money. If I need help, they will simply point to their warranty policy and apologize for not knowing more, maybe. I can buy the same battery at Costco and get better service from people that know slightly more than the first store, get a better warranty, and more locations to get warranty service.

Climbing the ladder, if you will, from there generally should get me a better battery, better service, and a better warranty. If i go to NAPA auto parts and buy their premium battery, it will be expensive, but think of all the NAPA stores I can take it to if i have a problem. For batteries, in my experience, this has been the case. The reason some manufacturers like Optima demand the prices they do is because of how they expect their dealers to take care of an Optima customer and the better warranty, not because they simply think the cool name is worth more.

I buy good batteries and take care of them. Now that I have that philosophy and practice, I pay less in the long run. I can only make suggestions based on my experince. Every one else can, and often will, do exactly as they like, and I really do wish them the best. If things don't turn out well, I won't say I told you so.

Because I already have. (<--- That is, I said, that is a joke! Now you laugh!)

OK so which battery do you recommend for 4 nights without power.

[Sparky223]

On a side note. My cousin works for Lincare in Wyoming. She told me they will give you a loaner battery for free. I bet Apria wont do that.

[Dan Jacobs]

OK so which battery do you recommend for 4 nights without power.

For four nights without power ( i assume you mean that you won't have the ability to recharge the battery during the day), you are almost certainly looking a batteries, as in needing more than one.

Tell me how many hours/night you will be using the machine, what the power consumption of the machine is, and I should be able to go from there. I won't tell you exactly which brand of battery you need, but I can help you find the right battery(ies) for the job.

[Dan Jacobs]

On a side note. My cousin works for Lincare in Wyoming. She told me they will give you a loaner battery for free. I bet Apria wont do that.

Bingo. There's your best battery, the free one.

[Sparky223]

OK so which battery do you recommend for 4 nights without power.

For four nights without power ( i assume you mean that you won't have the ability to recharge the battery during the day), you are almost certainly looking a batteries, as in needing more than one.

Tell me how many hours/night you will be using the machine, what the power consumption of the machine is, and I should be able to go from there. I won't tell you exactly which brand of battery you need, but I can help you find the right battery(ies) for the job.

I am not sure about power consumption without the humidifier. My manual only says 5 amps DC. I suspect that has to be with humidifier. Guess 4 nights 8 hours a night. Can I recharge a deep cell off my car battery?

[VikingGnome]

I used a BLUE TOP to power and 2 solar panels to charge my ham radio equipment. During Katrina when we were 6 weeks with no power, I could at least talk to other hams. It was $150 when I bought it. Has long shelf life keeping full charge. OPTIMA deep cycle is the way to go. Great batteries.

[Dan Jacobs]

I am not sure about power consumption without the humidifier. My manual only says 5 amps DC. I suspect that has to be with humidifier. Guess 4 nights 8 hours a night. Can I recharge a deep cell off my car battery?

OK, lets look at the details.

Amp-hour means a constant load of "X" amps over an hour. 5 amps over an hour equals 5 amp-hours (Ah)

8 hours of 5 amp use equals 40Ah. Most batteries are rated at "X"Ah use over 20 hours. You need a 40 Ah minimum battery to use the machine at 5 amps for one night. You can either double the Ah rating of the battery for two nights, or use more than one battery for each extra night, etc.

Lets say you want to buy an Interstate Battery. Looking at their web site, http://www.interstatebatteries.com/cs_e ... rine_f.asptheir SC34M has an Ah rating of 50, so that leaves a little extra cushion in reserve in case you sleep in a little. 50 Ah means that if you use something that draws 50 amps, the battery will run it for approximately 1 hour, and will have a voltage of about 10.5 volts at that time.If you have no means of recharging this battery, you will need 4 of them for 4 nights at 8 hours of a 5 amp draw.

If you want to keep the battery(ies) extra happy, you will try to prevent the voltage from going below a 50% state of charge, which can be found with the help of this graph: http://www.scubaengineer.com/documents/ ... graphs.pdf. Your battery(ies) will last much longer if you can prevent them from going under 50% SoC, but deep cycle batteries will do much better at lower than 50% SoC than other types of lead acid batteries upon recharging.

Yes, you absolutely can recharge a deep cycle battery of of your car, but not your car battery exclusively. Start the car, let it run for a minute or so, have the deep cycle battery close and on a surface where it will not fall (the ground is a good place), hook up jumper cables properly to the deep cycle battery, hook them up properly to the car, and let it charge while the car runs. When it reaches about 12.5-12.7 volts (best checked 20 minutes or so after you remove the cables to allow the "surface charge" effect to diminish), and Bob's your uncle. It's inefficient to use such a large engine just for this purpose, but if there is no other source of power to charge the battery, it will work fine. RV's do this very thing to recharge their deep cycle batteries as they go down the road, or with a generator set.

When you get home, put the battery(ies) on an automatic charger that has a "float" charge, and keep them charged and ready for next time.

Another alternative is laid out here, which isn't a bad idea, and the battery can be disconnected from the UPS for charging from your car, then easily reconnected:
viewtopic/t73063/UPSZILLA--UPSUninterru ... upply.html The added benefit is that the UPS will charge the battery as it sits at home, and you can have auto-magic power back up for your machine at home in case of a power outage and protection against power surges. Changing 12VDC power to 120VAC isn't as efficient as running a 12VDC capable machine straight off the battery, but it is a good option if you need it.

I hope that has been helpful in your decision making. Please let me know if I can help you any further.

[Super Iridium]

In response to the question by the OP, I actually use a Devilbiss Intellipap for camping and travel, and that's the one that I use with my 35 A-h battery. (The battery is a deep cycle AGM battery from a reputable American manufacturer. Again, I recommend http://www.atbatt.com for these batteries, but I'm sure there are other vendors out there who are just as good.) I do NOT use the humidifier when I'm on battery power -- first, because I don't think the Devilbiss humidifier will work when powered by a 12 volt source and second, even though I could go through the extra step of adding an inverter and then powering the CPAP plus humidifer with the standard 120 volts AC, I just don't think the humidifier is worth all of the extra power when you are using a battery.

With this in mind, I had no trouble getting two nights out of my 35 A-h battery, using a min pressure of 8.5. I don't know if I could have gone more nights that that, but two nights would cover virtually all but the most extreme situations, so I'm pretty satisfied with the battery I have. For what it's worth, when you move up to 55 A-h or even larger batteries, I think you'll see that the size and weight start to increase REALLY fast. I felt like 35 A-h was a decent compromise for what I planned to use the battery for -- power outage backup with maybe two to four nights of camping per year. I suppose if you never intend to move the battery ever, then a big 55 or even 85 A-h battery would make sense. But these kinds of batteries are very, very heavy and don't work too well as a camping accessory.

As for the comment above that "well, you get what you pay for," actually in this case you don't. You can, however, do a little bit of research and buy a LOT higher quality/larger capacity battery for the same money, or you can just shut your eyes, put your fingers in your ears, sing "la la la la la la" and just pay money out of your nose for a battery that is going to have a much lower capacity and quality than what I have. For the record, I'm not suggesting that anyone purchase a car battery from Sears -- if you read John Fisher's posts, you will know why that's not a good choice. You want a SEALED, DEEP CYCLE, AGM or GEL battery made by a reputable manufacturer. And no, just paying a lot of money isn't going to guarantee that you get the best battery around. Reading what others have written on this site, however, will do the trick. That's all I'm suggesting!

[Dan Jacobs]

The OP did say earlier that when camping weight was not a factor, but you are right about the weight going up to unmanageable levels for some, until you reach unmanageable for many, all the way up to no longer portable without the right equipment. It is easier (lighter) to carry 100Ah of energy in 4 packages than in 1 or 2.

[archangle]

I am not sure about power consumption without the humidifier. My manual only says 5 amps DC. I suspect that has to be with humidifier. Guess 4 nights 8 hours a night. Can I recharge a deep cell off my car battery?

What's your pressure? Amps go up with pressure.

With a pressure of 12 and humidifier running, my PRS1 Auto draws around 20 watts into the AC power adapter actual measured usage averaged over the night. This is less than 2 amps on the DC side. 16 Amp Hours per night, less without the humidifier.

If you don't have to move it around and don't have to worry about spilling it, I'd get a 100 or higher deep cycle marine battery. I just bought one at Sam's for $80 or so. Get a battery box, and a Schumacher SE-1-12S float charger. Get the Respironics cable, or make your own. Be sure to have a fuse AT the battery.

The further down you discharge the battery, the fewer cycles you'll get on it. However, if the power goes out for 4 days and you ruin your battery because you ran it down too far, who cares as long as your CPAP worked the whole time. How often is the power going to go out for several days in a row? Don't forget you need to replace the battery every 5 years or so even if you treat it perfectly.

Even if you do run the battery down too far, you usually can do this a few times before you notice problems.

By the way, be sure it's a deep cycle battery, not a "Marine starting," "starting/deep cycle," "dual purpose," or anything other than a pure deep cycle battery. Gel cell or AGM is good, but their main advantage is that you can't spill the acid if you turn it over.

[JohnBFisher]

check out the back-up battery design created by John B. Franklin on this website.

I followed his plan exactly and got almost all of the components on a website called http://www.atbatt.com. Even using the "more expensive" option for virtually all of the items, I still ended up with a total cost of around $150. The battery I ended up with has 35 ampere-hours of capacity, and I keep it topped off with a Battery Tender Junior float charger.

After building the battery using John's advice, I'm amazed at how much money is wasted on these other CPAP battery solutions.

You have the same cpap as I do. How long can it go on a full charge. No power to charge.

The length of time usually depends on the pressure. My ASV can last more than two days even with the humidifier.