Full Face mask Decision

[Artwood]

I've been using the Breeze nasal mask for the last two years. It worked great at first but now I've been sleeping with my mouth open no matter how tight I adjust the chin strap.

There's nothing wrong with the Breeze--it is great--it's just that I can't keep my mouth open when I sleep. They've done a pulse Ox on me at night with it and my sats go real low.

I use the Respironics auto with C-flex and my pressure is set for 5-15. A nurse at the sleep clinic said they might need to bump up my top pressure slightly.

They suggested different mouth remedies to keep my mouth shut but sometimes I have acid reflux and HAVE on a few times woke up with it.

Because of this they recommended that I not tape my mouth because there is a small possibiity that I could choke to death.

I've decided that I should get MMA surgery--I know thhat's drastic but my father had OSA and got UPP surgery--I don't think it stopped his apneas and he died nearly 3 years ago of a brain aneurysm brought on by high blood pressure and I would guess unresolved OSA of many years at age 67.

MMA is 90% or more effective and I figure if it doesn't FIX the problem I could still continue with CPAP that wouldn't have to be as supportive.

My problem is this: my current insurance will not pay for the surgery--but I can switch to another carrier that would cover it come January. Until then I need decent CPAP because I work 2d shift in the OR and am taking nursing courses through Excelsior College out of New York Online and I'm so tired at this point that retaining information from studying with my CPAP not working right just doesn't cut it.

I also have diabetes and take 1 Metformin tablet a day so getting my sleep apnea under control is imperative--when it gets out of control my blood sugar gets worse and my blood pressure rises.

So really what I need to do now is get a Full Face Mask to last me until surgery in January. Yes I know that people say they are uncomfortable but I was in the Army and would doze off even in a gas mask and I remember that the masks they had me on in my sleep study weren't that impossible to endure--I woke up the next day feeling great so I think I can handle a Full Face Mask.

I know that Full Masks are prone to leak alot--I guess what I need to know is which is the best one to get? Which one leaks the least?

I also need to know: on my current set up with the the Breeze and the Remstar Auto I set the temperature of the humidifier on 3--if I set it at the maximum would that make me be a little less congested in the morning with a full face mask? I've heard that dry mouth is common with them?

Would buying a heated hose help any? And lastly would setting my upper pressure on the Remstar auto ABOVE 15 compensate any for small leaks that I'm sure I'll get with a Full face mask regardless of how well it fits? Also should I just buy a respironics mask to match the CPAP machine I have or does it matter?

So there you have it folks: I'm asking for your help as SUPREME CPAP masters to guide me to the combination of Best Full Face mask along with any other advice concerning raising my pressure on the Remstar auto and changing the humidification on it or purchasing a heated hose that will gvie me the best outcome.

I know that you have to experiment with such things but as I don't have alot of time to do so between now and January any advice you could give me would be appreciated.

My physician-a wonderful lady- is not an obstacle to such minor changes as these but frankly like alot of other Sleep Doctors out there just really isn't clued in as far as sleep equipment goes.

I think I could sell her on any of these small changes. Please be my surrogate sleep doctor. What changes should I make?

Thanks to all who are struggling too,

Artwood

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): respironics, breeze, humidifier, hose, C-FLEX, CPAP, auto

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): respironics, breeze, humidifier, hose, C-FLEX, CPAP, auto

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): respironics, breeze, humidifier, hose, C-FLEX, CPAP, auto

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): respironics, breeze, humidifier, hose, C-FLEX, CPAP, auto

[sinkem]

I went from a UMFF (good mask) to a hybrid (great mask, for me).

[Goofproof]

Whoa! You are thinking too much! You need a FF Mask, you are not getting your treatment because of leaks. Fix that first, and throw the surgery into the trash can along with you provider that wants to increase your pressure so you can have more leaks.

Have the acid reflux treated, if needed . You have to get the mouthleaking stopped, without doing that you aren't being treated. Jim

[rested gal]

Artwood, I think you are analyzing your options very methodically and well. You described your situation and options clearly.

I'm not a doctor or anything in the medical field. I agree with Goofproof about not raising the top pressure more. Doesn't sound like that would accomplish much other than making any mask more apt to leak...and making yet more air gush out your mouth.

Yes, do get a full face mask. Maybe you can get the people at the sleep clinic or at your DME to let you try several brands of FF mask. Each one can be so different on different people's faces.

Yes, the mouth usually does get more dried out even with a FF mask, so heated humidification might have to be cranked up more. If turning the heat up causes rainout, you're right to be thinking about the Aussie heated hose from sleepzone.com.au to solve that problem, if it happens.

Equally important, imho, as getting a FF mask to handle the mouth breathing/mouth air leaks, is that you aggressively go after treating your acid reflux problem. Untreated (or undertreated) acid reflux disease can be a real wrecker of cpap treatment, as the machine's air pressure can't push aside swollen, hard tissue very well. And that's what can happen if acid is bathing your esophagus and vocal cords every night, whether you actually feel any symptoms or not. The fact that you occasionally do have symptoms of GERD means it may be happening a lot more often than you know.

Here's a link showing how badly cpap (autopap) treatment was going for at least one person who had not been aware of his acid reflux problem...and how much better the cpap treatment went after he got his acid reflux under control:

Nov 05, 2005 subject: SUCCESS AT LAST-GERD,420E, PRILOSEC AND BENADRYL -SWS's thoughts on loonlvr's massive clusters of events and loonlvr's followup post.

The MMA/GA surgery you're thinking about is, as you said, drastic...however, is indeed way up in the 90% range as an effective, permanent cure for OSA. Unlike UPPP which is largely ineffective longterm. If you're willing to have MMA surgery and will have insurance that covers it and a TOP surgeon doing it, that's not a bad thing to consider, imho.

For now, as Goofproof suggested, get the FF mask and definitely treat that acid reflux to keep you going better for the time being. If you don't get the acid reflux under good control, cpap air may be hitting a brick wall that it can't deal with well, no matter what pressure, what mask.

If you get the acid reflux well and truly treated, you might be able to use tape after all and go back to the Breeze that lets you sleep comfortably.

Good luck!

[roadwarrior]

Please try a Mojo FF mask so I can get a user opinion on it. This is the one I'm looking seriously at. Good luck

[Severeena]

I vote for the Hans Rudolph.

Not all people can wear all of the masks listed that we like.

You have to do a trial and error and it is quite costly. As for my UMFF I dropped kicked the second night I tried to use it and my poor husband said what is making that noise and I removed my mask and dropped kicked right there.

The VA gave my husband the same mask as I had and I started laughing.

He dropped kicked his on the first night of use.

Two people in the same household had obscene noises for about two minute and that was all we could take.

[Artwood]

rested gal: what full Face masks did you use before you went to the Breeze and Aura and other nasal masks? Did you have much leakage problems with them?

Also what are the benefits of auto bipap with BiFlex versus auto cpap with C-Flex?

I think the advice on reflux is good--I also take prescription Niacin to lessen cholesterol and my regular care physician says that can cause reflux--maybe I should look for more options there.

What's frustrating for me is I almost feel like my sleep doctor and my equipment company can't even read a print-out from my Respironics auto CPAP machine well enough to even tell what is wrong or how I should go about fixing it.

All I know are the basics such as you have to keep your mouth shut and you need a good seal for your mask to work correctly--I wouldn't know how to TWEAK anything.

I wish someone published a book kind of like those Picture books that show you how to use your computer that would show you many different parameters on a Respironics print-out and give suggestions on what is going wrong and what adjustments you should make. I don't know where to get such information. Is that common?

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): cpap machine, auto cpap, respironics, bipap, breeze, C-FLEX, Aura, seal, Prescription, auto

[patbringer]

So really what I need to do now is get a Full Face Mask to last me until surgery in January. Yes I know that people say they are uncomfortable but I was in the Army and would doze off even in a gas mask and I remember that the masks they had me on in my sleep study weren't that impossible to endure--I woke up the next day feeling great so I think I can handle a Full Face Mask.

I know that Full Masks are prone to leak alot--I guess what I need to know is which is the best one to get? Which one leaks the least?

Artwood,

I use the new Hybrid (it was launched only 2 months back) and I'm very happy with it. It does not leak. You can look it up at http://www.hybridmask.com

I have not used other FF masks but my Apria RT told me that she has had most success with the Hybrid in the past month compared to the other FF masks in reducing leaks and discomfort for patients like you and me.

If you can get a FF mask to work comfortably for you, you may not need surgery.

Pat

[bulldog]

High Artwood,
I also have acid reflux and sufferred for around 50 years until a doctor gave me a script for Nexium. I take one 40mg pill the first thing every morning and I eat anything and everything and no more reflux. I had my pipes scoped a month ago and everything has healed and looking good. I have been on Nexium for two years now.

I tried a bunch of different mask of different brands and the best for me has been the Ultra Mirage Full Face. It is very important to get the right size to avoid leaks. I try to roll over and sleep face down but don't quite get there and the side pressure on the mask does not break the seal. You still have to keep your mouth shut with the full face so you would still have to work on that problem. I hope this info will help.
Bulldog

[oldgearhead]

I have tried these three FF masks(Listed in ascending date order):

1) UMFF - Made my upper gums, nose, and jaw very sore.

2) F&P HC431 - Better, but it was almost impossible to keep it from leaking without installing my partial plate. Furthermore, it caused my face to sweat, a lot.

3) Hybrid - Absolutely wonderful, if you can make it fit your face..

Most hours:
1) ComfortLite 2 and tapped mouth 44 days in May/June.

2) Hybrid (modified), 33 days in July/August

3) UMFF - 20 hours in May/June

4) HC431 - 39 hours in May/June

[Artwood]

Does the ultra mirage work well with The Respironics Auto CPAP with C-Flex? I've heard that some masks don't work well with some auto CPAPs of different companies.

Do you have to tape your mouth shut with a full face mask, too? I thought that was the purpose of a Full Face mask.

[Wulfman]

Does the ultra mirage work well with The Respironics Auto CPAP with C-Flex? I've heard that some masks don't work well with some auto CPAPs of different companies.

Do you have to tape your mouth shut with a full face mask, too? I thought that was the purpose of a Full Face mask.

It's what I've been using for the last 15 months (exclusively). I'm not using it at extreme pressures, but where I'm at it does a very good job.
I've used it with both straight CPAP and Auto modes.
I think the REMstar machines adapt better to different kinds of masks.
Having been a mouth-breather, I find that the FF helps to open up my nasal passages and pretty well puts an end to mouth breathing.

And I've never had to use tape.

Best wishes,

Den

[WNJ]

Artwood,

I feel strongly that a FF mask is the simplest, most effective “cure” for mouth leaks.

In my limited experience, the FF mask I’m now using is more comfortable to wear than any nasal mask I’ve used. Remember though, everyone’s face is shaped differently and the FF mask that works for one person may be terrible for another.

Suggestion: Use the mask fitting guide on CPAP.COM https://www.cpap.com/cpap-mask-sizing.php

I put in my measurements and the only FF masks that came up as a fit for me were the UMFF and the HC431. The fact that I’ve tried other FF masks that would not seal gives me faith in the fitting guide. (And since ResMed seems to want to stamp out internet competition for their products, I think I’ll try an HC431 for my next mask. )

Wayne

[Bellcrest]

I have had acid reflux for many years.....I had a terrible time with it.

I delayed going to the doc for a long time, when I did, he sent me to specialist and then I was sent for scope. I was put on pariet. This is a wonder drug......along with my cpap treatment.

The two things, OSA and acid reflux seem to go hand in hand. Now that my acid reflux is under control, I have no problem taping my mouth so I can use nasal interface masks. Prior to acid reflux meds, I used full face masks with no success at all. I used Ultra Mirage FF and F&P 431 also tried Comfort (not) full face. of those 3 the F&P 431 was the best, but for me, the nasal interface works great.

I just acquired a Hybrid which arrived today........after a fair trial I'll let y'all know how it works for me.

[Mile High Sleeper]

Mask shoppers, try before you buy, if you can.

My local hospital sleep lab offers free mask trials and fittings to previous patients, and for $50 an hour to people who aren't previous patients. They can get almost any mask and let you try it under pressure, laying down on your back and sides, and measure leaks. I've gone in and tried on about 5 FF masks in various brands and sizes at one time. In addition, they are expert mask fitters and can show you how to adjust a mask. You can buy the mask there or elsewhere. Best times to reach a sleep lab are around 9 in the morning or 6 in the evening, when they are there but don't have patients. There is a poster in CA whose sleep center does the same thing.

With luck, lots of luck, maybe you could get your DME to do the same. Or you could go to another DME, even if it's not on your insurance plan, and work out payment somehow for a mask trial? My DME changed from "we can't get that" and comment about why a mask wouldn't work, to "we can get anything that your insurance will pay for" once they found out I was an informed cpap.com customer. Whether or not they really can do that remains to be seen because they haven't followed up as promised, as usual, and they don't know how to do mask fittings well.

Check out your local sleep centers and DMEs. If you live in or near Colorado, PM me for the name of my sleep lab.

Good luck, we all need it!