Trucker Headed to Court=SAD

Rabid1 · Post by **Rabid1** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:14 pm

http://www.saljournal.com/?module=displ ... ormat=html

This is sad on many levels.

People were killed and seriously injured.

The trucker's life will never be the same.

All their families have been affected.

The underlying sadness to this is the lack of understanding & acceptance of the seriousness of sleep apnea.

I'll wager if the trucker had serious heart disease, his license would have been suspended. The same goes for many other medical impairments. Doctors have the authority (and responsibility) to submit patients to DMV who pose a danger when driving. Why wasn't this done?

I feel for everyone's loss in this incident. It's just hard for me to view the trucker as a criminal, with the limited facts I have.

What are your thoughts?

blarg · Post by **blarg** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:10 pm

It all depends on what he was told by that first doctor. If he was told that sleep apnea would severly affect his ability to drive his rig, and he just ignored that advice and went to a different doctor, then I could see him being considered a criminal.

I personally think people underestimate the seriousness of driving way more than the seriousness of sleep apnea.

Rabid1 · Post by **Rabid1** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:19 pm

blarg wrote:It all depends on what he was told by that first doctor. If he was told that sleep apnea would severly affect his ability to drive his rig, and he just ignored that advice and went to a different doctor, then I could see him being considered a criminal.

I personally think people underestimate the seriousness of driving way more than the seriousness of sleep apnea.

The point is the seriousness of driving WITH sleep apnea. Kinda like the seriousness of driving drunk.

We don't know what the doc told the trucker, but, given your own experiences, wouldn't you want to believe the trucker had no idea what his apnea was all about?

Sleepless_in_LM · Post by **Sleepless_in_LM** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:21 pm

Hard to judge from a newspaper article, but if he sought out a 2nd doctor just to cover-up his OSA and save his license, then I think I would expect criminal charges if my loved ones were killed...

Rabid1 · Post by **Rabid1** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:25 pm

Sleepless_in_LM wrote:Hard to judge from a newspaper article, but if he sought out a 2nd doctor just to cover-up his OSA and save his license, then I think I would expect criminal charges if my loved ones were killed...

I agree 100%

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:34 pm

Just think of how many more UN-diagnosed drivers (all vehicles) are traveling the highways.

Den

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:36 pm

Add to that airplane pilots, air traffic controllers, heavy equipment operators ...

chrisp · Post by **chrisp** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:53 pm

Yea OSA is bad but I'll take my chances with them rather than the goodie 2 shoes Soccer Moms out there in their SUVs with their phones glued to their ears and sweet darlings fighting in the back seat.

Been nearly assaulted by many of them except for my quick fighter pilot reactions evasive maneuvers.

What red light

:twis ted:

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:58 pm

feel sorry for those that lost their lives a real tragedy for sure.

but what is a person supposed to do?

Guy probably had 20 years driving a truck with a few more to reach retirement and unknowingly goes to a doctor to find out why he gets tired so easily and gets a diagnosis that ends his career, 20yrs down the drain, his retirement and future are all now at risk. You think they are going to give him a desk job to finish out his time before retirement? Don't think so, not even on a good day.

Sometimes you are almost better off NOT getting the OSA diagnosis as having the diagnosis is worse than the disease itself or is it even a disease? or is it nature's way of killing us off gradually so we don't overpopulate. Try and get Life Insurance by telling your agent you have OSA, try getting health insurance.

I bet if you tested every truck driver on the road for OSA at least 50% would show up having OSA. Same goes for every train Engineer, Airline pilot etc. What do you do if after 12 or more years of education to become a surgeon you get diagnosed with OSA? So do you give up your career? If you are smart you never get the diagnosis because it can be career ending. Do they put you on disability for OSA? Not likely. How is the guy supposed to make a living.

LoriD · Post by **LoriD** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:05 pm

Sleepless_in_LM wrote:Hard to judge from a newspaper article, but if he sought out a 2nd doctor just to cover-up his OSA and save his license, then I think I would expect criminal charges if my loved ones were killed...

Absolutely.

This reminds me of a story here in my area that I believe happened around 2000 or so when a man with a history of seizures kept driving and had an accident, killing a woman and her pregnant daughter. The man, of course, also was brought up on charges.

In my own case, being I already had a history of lapses of consciousness, I am already barred by my state from obtaining a license, and now being diagnosed with OSA has pretty much sealed my fate there. It's just as well, because I don't think I could handle the guilt of knowing I killed an innocent person with a vehicle, knowing I had a condition that I should not have been driving with in the first place.

Rabid1 · Post by **Rabid1** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:18 pm

Something personal I'd like to add...

I have severe OSA (53.5 AHI). I NEVER fall asleep at the wheel. I never fall asleep at work. I don't take naps during the day.

My doc wants to write a paper about people like me. Most of us have been, or are, emergency service workers; ie: Firemen, Paramedics, or, like me, Police Officers.

He says he's seen a correlation between us and the ability to not fall asleep during times it's essential to stay awake.

For me, I had to train myself to stay awake.

telly · Post by **telly** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:39 am

Wulfman wrote:Just think of how many more UN-diagnosed drivers (all vehicles) are traveling the highways.

Den

Before 10 days ago, this would include me. Driving back and forth from SF to LA quite often. The drive on I-5 is mesmerising. Flat, straight and boring for 5 hours THEN twists turns and mountain driving for the last 90 minutes on the "Grapevine". Brutal.

When I was working in Silicon Valley and commuting home to SF. This was a simple 1 hr. cruise on the 16 lane I-280 AKA "The 100 Mile an Hour Freeway" (built in the 60's for the "cars of tomorrow"). People speed like mad and the average is around 75-80 MPH. About halfway into the drive (only 30 minutes), I was already too drowsy to drive and had to either pull over or risk falling asleep at the wheel.

That's when I found my savior: The Hyper Caffeinated Energy Drink: Rock Star

I had a rule that on my first nod off, I'd pull over and get a Rock Star Beverage (THE 55 Gallon Drum Size).

Since I-280 is fairly rural, there is no chance to buy a beverage, so I would ritually grab a Rock Star or get a double espresso at the company cafe before heading out. A time or too, I had to pull over and take a cat nap.

Pretty extreme for a simple 1 hour drive.

The incident that truck driver had could have easily been me. I hate CPAP, but I couldn't live with having killed someone due to my own negligence.

Problem is: Most everyone has some issues with their sleep. Especially certain professions. I was a night grocery stocker in college, and had horrible trouble adjusting to working at night. Nowadays, in the film and video business a common saying is, "Sleep is for Sissies".

The only thing that you can do as an individual is to make sure your friends, family are not sleep deprived. I've become kind of a sleep nazi lately. I doubt this will subside. ...

telly · Post by **telly** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:44 am

chrisp wrote:Yea OSA is bad but I'll take my chances with them rather than the goodie 2 shoes Soccer Moms out there in their SUVs with their phones glued to their ears and sweet darlings fighting in the back seat.

LA is TOTALLy ridiculous with the cell phone thing.

blarg · Post by **blarg** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:11 am

Rabid1 wrote:For me, I had to train myself to stay awake.

I think this is much like people training themselves to keep their mouths closed on CPAP. Some can and some can't.

Personally, I can stay awake almost as long as I have to to get something done. I've been awake 40+ hours even recently (with untreated OSA), and didn't feel great, but never fell asleep unconrollably. I never fell asleep during class, or conversations with people.

I have a friend that does not have sleep apnea or as far as his doctor can tell, any sleep disorder, yet he has to pull over once every hour or two of driving so he doesn't fall asleep. This includes drinking 6 energy drinks back to back to attempt to keep himself awake. He just can't do it without pulling over, and only has this when he's driving.

Snoredog, I guess I'm wondering what would have happened if he had successfully been treating his apnea. If he was 100% compliant on XPAP and feeling great when he went back for that second checkup, would he still lose his license?

If so, then I have a big problem wth that. My comments above were based on the assumption that he would have been able to keep his license if sucessfully treated. In which case, there's almost zero justification for trying to cover it up. Also, are you saying that each one of us will lose our licenses for having been diagnosed? Commercial licenses are different, I know.

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:48 am

This subject has come up a few times before. There ARE CPAP-using truckers who are able to continue driving. In fact, I once stumbled onto a truckers forum that had a section for the CPAP users.
I don't think there's a problem as long as they keep sleeping with their machines. Maybe this guy in the story didn't get all of the facts and/or thought using a machine while he slept wasn't "macho" or something.

I never did have a problem with driving (before starting therapy), but put me in front of a computer screen......and it was all over

Den