Is Expiratory Puff Possible with FF Mask, Chinstrap, and Mouth Tape?

[Tyler2]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm in the middle of fine tuning some other stuff currently, but will probably try as you suggested at some point.

What do you mean by "load up a night with that into SleepHQ to try to figure out if it really causes arousals"? I've used SleepHQ before and I didn't notice any function that would tell you if a particular breathing pattern causes an arousal.

[Nocibur]

I've used SleepHQ before and I didn't notice any function that would tell you if a particular breathing pattern causes an arousal.

You got one now.

[Tyler2]

I've used SleepHQ before and I didn't notice any function that would tell you if a particular breathing pattern causes an arousal.

You got one now.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

[robysue1]

I've used SleepHQ before and I didn't notice any function that would tell you if a particular breathing pattern causes an arousal.

You got one now.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

I believe Nocibur simply means that if you post some data on Sleep HQ, he and other long term posters can look at your data and tell you if your breathing patterns are indicating that you're experiencing a large number of excess arousals. For those of us who have years of experience looking at the flow rate data, it's not too tough to pick out breathing patterns that indicate likely arousals.

Having said that, it's also important to note that everybody, including folks with totally normal good quality sleep (and no sleep apnea) will have some arousals during their sleep. It's just that those arousals are not too many and don't lead to long periods of restlessness where you're not really sleeping, but you're also not really wide awake enough to remember that you were awake for a significant part of the night.

[Tyler2]

I believe Nocibur simply means that if you post some data on Sleep HQ, he and other long term posters can look at your data...

Thanks robysue1; that didn't even occur to me! Below is a link to my SleepHQ data. Nocibur, or anyone else, I appreciate any thoughts you might have on my sleep data.

https://sleephq.com/public/teams/share_ ... d32a99b750

[Tyler2]

I should have added that the few OAs, Hs, and CAs in my data are all associated with movement verified by a time synched Wellue ring, so 4.2 EPAP appears to be good enough to eliminate all real OAs and Hs, and "very high" inhale trigger eliminated all real CAs that I was previously having a few of (O2 and pulse is always good at 93-96% and 50-60bpm at 4000' elevation, but smoother and better numbers on some nights). I'm messing around with different masks and chinstrap and mouth tape right now to try to eliminate that rapid exhale waveform but no luck. It doesn't happen that often but it does sometimes lead to a wakeup. Even absent the waveform, I wakeup pretty consistently 2-3 times a night and often my Oura ring data shows multiple other wakeups that I don't remember. Besides some problems sometimes getting back to sleep after a wakeup, I feel I am close to optimizing my PAP setting. Overall, my next plan is to slowly increase PS. I've been on bi-level for two months and tried higher PS earlier but resulted in more wakeups so backed off as I think there is an adjustment period.

[Nocibur]

I believe Nocibur simply means that if you post some data on Sleep HQ, he and other long term posters can look at your data...

As well as request more data, cause there's always some surprises:

at 4000' elevation

I see SleepHQ still doesn't show Mask Pressure. I wonder why that is. Probably nobody there has the SFI what they're looking at. Guess we can't do an event/pressure sync but oh well there's worse things in life.

You sure sleep (or rather, spend a lot of time in bed) a lot. As a notorious short-sleeping ASPSer (thank God for DST!) I can't relate to that.

Anyway, I got 2 things lemme make some pitchers...

Meanwhile, post the Oscar Overview and list any/all medications including illegal stuff.

[Nocibur]

new2.jpg (27.76 KiB) Viewed 4917 times

[Nocibur]

...arousals.

Point of Order, according to Da Rules, if the sleep disturbance lasts 3-14 seconds, it's an arousal. More than that it's Wake.

[Nocibur]

https://sleephq.com/public/teams/share_ ... d32a99b750

SleepHQ appears to be on the fritz. When I click on your link I get different downloads. Different days, different settings...

[Nocibur]

For instance:

new3.jpg (44.84 KiB) Viewed 4597 times

They keep sending me to https://sleephq.com/public/teams/share_ ... /dashboard

044f3.

[Tyler2]

Changed from AirSense 11 AutoSet to AirCurve 11 VAuto on 21 Jan. No meds or substances. Yea, SleepHQ seems to be on the fritz.

[Nocibur]

There are better examples of your "expiratory puffs"

new4.jpg (34.3 KiB) Viewed 4555 times

I think you got a little bit of this:

https://sites.google.com/view/palatal-prolapse/

[Tyler2]

Interesting, your link seems to be a match. Thank you very much for that. However, based on the illustration of the airway at your link and the statement it makes that "Oral mask pressure therapy bypasses the soft palate altogether," it would seem that a full face mask (which I always use) without mouth tape (which is my normal configuration) should solve the problem, i.e., a blocked nasal passage on exhale would just result in exhale out through the mouth, but I still have these waveforms (occasionally) even with my normal configuration of FF mask and no mouth tape.

Further, another source says "the appearance of palatal prolapse is nearly identical to the more common problem of expiratory mouth breathing" (https://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.p ... l_Prolapse).

[Nocibur]

... it would seem that a full face mask (which I always use) without mouth tape (which is my normal configuration) should solve the problem, i.e., a blocked nasal passage on exhale would just result in exhale out through the mouth, but I still have these waveforms (occasionally) even with my normal configuration of FF mask and no mouth tape...

Except your experiment with taping your mouth essentially proved EFL secondary to PP; using an FFM would be a total solution (no EFL) only if you opened your mouth fully rather than performing an "expiratory puff"; and of the night in question of the 6840 breaths you took only ~60 had the appearance of PP or <1.0%. Meh.