Seizure from a blocked CPAP mask?

[Sparky621]

Hi,

New to this forum - hope some of you can help. My son recently suffered a seizure that the docs stated could have resulted from a blocked vent on a Quattro CPAP mask. My question: is this even possible? Aren't there safety precautions built into a mask to prevent this from happening? When he was found the mask was still on his face and the CPAP machine was still running. He had fallen out of bed as a result of the seizure. Luckily he suffered no brain damage or other impairments. He is 23 and has never had any seizure or other neurological problems.

Now, I feel the CPAP is dangerous and he should no longer use it. Of course it's a catch-22: don't use the CPAP and risk the adverse affects of sleep apnea, or use the CPAP and risk triggering another seizure and possible brain damage. I'm hoping others can weigh in with some opinions and help us sort through this dilemma.

Thanks.

[LSAT]

Unless this was a very old mask that had not been cleaned, and the holes are completely plugged, the most probable cause of blockage would be that the mask was covered by a sheet or blanket. I use the Quattro and my 18 month old mask has rarely been cleaned and my exhaust holes are perfectly clear. I think you should look for other causes for the seizure.

[Julie]

The doctors called what he had a 'seizure' for lack of better terminology, but in fact were not present when it occurred and can only be guessing at what happened, especially if it's a first for your son. Your son may have been aroused by something, whether an apnea or not, and fell out of bed.

But I have never heard of Cpap causing a seizure in its real sense. Never, ever, including decades spent working in neurologists offices. All it does is deliver room air and nothing else. IF the vent were covered accidentally by bedding, again it's possible he 'over reacted' in his sleep to the sensation, and 'saved' himself unconsciously by rolling out of bed... but you'll never know. I would absolutely not over react by stopping Cpap because of a one time event even with my own child as it's unlikely to recur... but if it does, it could be a coincidental development of night terrors and I'd have that investigated separately from OSA. I have accidentally blocked the vent a couple of times and it can be a bit disorienting (at worst) though the reaction could be strong, if involuntary.

[McSleepy]

I sleep on my stomach and have to take special precautions to avoid the vent being blocked. Most masks I've looked into would get their vents easily blocked the way I sleep. The one that's been my choice for 13 years is the Breeze and I have to modify it by rerouting the vent outlet up the stem and into a wide area that would be very difficult to block. Nice side effect of that is that since the airflow is gradually widened, I don't feel the blowing of the air. In the beginning, before I modified it, even my wife could feel it as I turned around. Even if one does not sleep regularly on their stomach, it could happen and breathing air that is highly saturated in CO2 is not good. I attribute an event of paroxysmal atrial fibrillation (couple of months ago) on a botched vent maintenance I did the night before(never rush a job so important!)

McSleepy

[avi123]

deleted

[Julie]

Avil - if his son had epilepsy, I think we'd have been told, never mind about triggers. And one would also think a child would not be on Cpap without a study having been done. But why you assume he stopped breathing with no explanation is typical of your trouble making notes... there's no indication of it happening and if it did, the machine would kick in, that's why it's there. And in any case, that's not the issue. But if an otherwise healthy person were faced with e.g. a power failure situation, the lack of air would waken them and they'd tear off the mask enough to get some air.

[Sonnyboy]

Hi,

New to this forum - hope some of you can help. My son recently suffered a seizure that the docs stated could have resulted from a blocked vent on a Quattro CPAP mask. My question: is this even possible? Aren't there safety precautions built into a mask to prevent this from happening? When he was found the mask was still on his face and the CPAP machine was still running. He had fallen out of bed as a result of the seizure. Luckily he suffered no brain damage or other impairments. He is 23 and has never had any seizure or other neurological problems.

Now, I feel the CPAP is dangerous and he should no longer use it. Of course it's a catch-22: don't use the CPAP and risk the adverse affects of sleep apnea, or use the CPAP and risk triggering another seizure and possible brain damage. I'm hoping others can weigh in with some opinions and help us sort through this dilemma.

Thanks.

How long has he used Cpap?
Does he have PLMD or restless leg syndrome?
Could he have been sleeping too close to the side of the bed and just rolled over?


Mom needs to encourage her son to join the forum too.
Mom needs to understand not using Cpap can cause possible brain damage.

He is very fortunate to have been diagnosed with OSA at 23.

[Janknitz]

If the doctors suspected a blocked CPAP vent a simple blood gas test would have told them if this is true. Blood pH changes from increased CO2--it becomes more acidic and that can signal the breathing to stop. So it would have been simple enough to check. You can also check his CO2 levels after he's been on CPAP for a few hours. And it's easy enough to check to see if the vent holes are blocked. Furthermore, data can tell you exactly what the vent rate is to make sure it's within the mask's prescribed limits.

There is an anti-asphyxiation valve on the Quattro in case the airflow from the CPAP completely stops.

I call this theory highly unlikely. If a 23 year old is on CPAP, there must be other issues as well. I think his doctors need to stop looking for zebras without at least doing some simple checking to see if their theory is correct. Perhaps his therapy is suboptimal and they need to look at that!

[Goofproof]

Chicken or the Egg? When you have a seizure, you stop breathing, real doctors are taught this in med school, if they aren't sleeping. If I were worried I'd find better doctors and do more testing. Odd's are it's not XPAP related, but by stopping it's use, it's sure to be.

If you had used a full data recording XPAP, and the software to read the data, you could look at it and see a change in leak rate (blocked vent) or other problem. You could also set up a night vision camera and record his sleeping. At 23 he should be able to figure out how not to block the vent on the mask, however unlikely it is to do. Jim

[Sparky621]

The doctors called what he had a 'seizure' for lack of better terminology, but in fact were not present when it occurred and can only be guessing at what happened, especially if it's a first for your son. Your son may have been aroused by something, whether an apnea or not, and fell out of bed - little kids can get rowdy when sleeping. He may also have had a 'night terror', not uncommon in children for no particular reason.

But I have never heard of Cpap causing a seizure in its real sense. Never, ever, including decades spent working in neurologists offices. All it does is deliver room air and nothing else. IF the vent were covered accidentally by bedding, again it's possible he 'over reacted' in his sleep to the sensation, and 'saved' himself unconsciously by bouncing out of bed... but you'll never know. I would absolutely not over react by stopping Cpap because of a one time event even with my own child as it's unlikely to recur... but if it does, it could be a coincidental development of night terrors and I'd have that investigated separately from OSA. I have accidentally blocked the vent a couple of times and it can be a bit disorienting (at worst) so if it were to happen to a child, the reaction could be strong, if involuntary.

Julie, it most certainly was a seizure - in fact is was a tonic-clonic (grand mal) seizure. I wouldn't write "seizure" if I wasn't sure. I am a former EMT and was there attending to him before the ambulance arrived, so I know what a seizure is. And he's not a little kid - he's an adult. He sleeps on his stomach (not any more!) and they believe his mask was fully blocked.

So quite honestly: you're opinion is condescending. I am curious, however: what did you do when you "spent decades working in neurologists offices"?

[Julie]

Excuse me? It was not clear from your post that beyond the doctors saying it was a seizure there was any real indication of one... certainly you did not make it clear that you knew any better. So if you want help here, I suggest you not only ask nicely, but also say thank you when people offer help, whatever your opinion of that is. You're certainly free to ignore it!

[Sonnyboy]

What machine is he using?
Does he monitor his treatment using sleepyhead?

[Sparky621]

If the doctors suspected a blocked CPAP vent a simple blood gas test would have told them if this is true. Blood pH changes from increased CO2--it becomes more acidic and that can signal the breathing to stop. So it would have been simple enough to check. You can also check his CO2 levels after he's been on CPAP for a few hours. And it's easy enough to check to see if the vent holes are blocked. Furthermore, data can tell you exactly what the vent rate is to make sure it's within the mask's prescribed limits.

There is an anti-asphyxiation valve on the Quattro in case the airflow from the CPAP completely stops.

I call this theory highly unlikely. If a 23 year old is on CPAP, there must be other issues as well. I think his doctors need to stop looking for zebras without at least doing some simple checking to see if their theory is correct. Perhaps his therapy is suboptimal and they need to look at that!

Sleep apnea knows no age, Janknitz. There are no other issues, other than my son is a a large man and could stand to lose a few pounds. He's been using his CPAP for over a year now without a problem until the other day.

[Sparky621]

Excuse me? It was not clear from your post that beyond the doctors saying it was a seizure there was any real indication of one... certainly you did not make it clear that you knew any better. So if you want help here, I suggest you not only ask nicely, but also say thank you when people offer help, whatever your opinion of that is. You're certainly free to ignore it!

Excuse you, Julie. I suggest you check your attitude. Others are posting very helpful information, so thank you to all of them.

[Sparky621]

What machine is he using?
Does he monitor his treatment using sleepyhead?

Sonny: I believe it is a ResMed model, and I have no idea what "sleepyhead" is.