CPAPtalk.com

I think there need to be two different ones:

One to deal with the falling to sleep issue

One to deal with the mask "OMG I can't possibly breathe!" issue. This one would be more used during the day while trying to relax with the mask.

Mixing the two up would be wrong. Many people just need to get the mask off their minds to fall asleep.

BlackSpinner wrote:I think there need to be two different ones:

One to deal with the falling to sleep issue

One to deal with the mask "OMG I can't possibly breathe!" issue. This one would be more used during the day while trying to relax with the mask.

Mixing the two up would be wrong. Many people just need to get the mask off their minds to fall asleep.

Agree. The practice has to be in real time -- can't be talking about falling asleep on a CD that someone is using during the day to help them get used to the mask.

That being said: Some people do better by bringing their attention and mindfulness to what's happening, in this case, feeling the mask, feeling the anxiety, breathing with awareness, and practicing nonreactivity. Others do better directing their focus away from the physical/emotional sensations, like going to one's 'happy place' to distract from the stressful sensations. Kind of like helping women deal with labor -- some prefer to focus in on their breathing so they can work with it, others prefer to focus on something outside of themselves. Hmm, lots to consider here.

The idea of breaking into two separate guided meditations sounds very good.

I believe that I'm resistant to having something on my face because I'm afraid of being smothered. But even when I get relatively comfortable with the mask on (it seems to be in the right position, no major leaks,)I seem to jerk awake with a mouth full of air (after keeping my mouth closed). Obviously, mouth is falling open as I relax.

I wonder if a guided imagery or meditation would help me overcome that? or is that more of a mask issue (i.e., despite my high pressures, should I be on a nasal mask with a chin strap?)

ellen1159 wrote: I wonder if a guided imagery or meditation would help me overcome that? or is that more of a mask issue (i.e., despite my high pressures, should I be on a nasal mask with a chin strap?)

Forget the high pressure part of things for the moment. People are using high pressures and nasal masks or nasal pillow masks all over the place with pressures above 20 cm. That part can be done.

Can you normally breathe through your nose sufficiently for comfort during the day?
If you can't...then unless the humidified air helps clear up the congestion then a nasal interface mask for you probably won't work but you won't know unless you try it. For some people....the addition of the humidified air helps clear up the airway passages so that congestion that is normally there...isn't there. Not everyone but some people find this to happen.

Mouth breathing...chin strap or whatever...you know even if you did do some mouth breathing and had some mouth breathing leaks it would be better than not using the machine at all. Some therapy is better than no therapy.
Some therapy with leaks is better than no therapy and no leaks even if the leaks are mouth breathing sometimes during the night.
Maybe you wouldn't do it all night...lots of maybes but things aren't working so great right now are they?

Have you thought about reducing the pressure that I suggested quite a while back and others have suggested recently?
Some pressure is better than no pressure from not using the mask and machine.
Start out with lower pressures that enable you to maintain a good seal....over come masks issues..then maybe start inching the pressures upwards till you get to a therapeutic level???

I am not sure what nasal masks I might have available that have been donated but I can check to see.
I am pretty sure I have the Opus 360 nasal pillow mask that is complete with all sizes (or most) of the nasal pillows.
Yours to try for free if you wish.

Have you thought about reducing the pressure that I suggested quite a while back and others have suggested recently?
Some pressure is better than no pressure from not using the mask and machine.
Start out with lower pressures that enable you to maintain a good seal....over come masks issues..then maybe start inching the pressures upwards till you get to a therapeutic level???

I called the sleep doc's office after the first few days and they told they were reluctant to lower my pressure, that I seemed to need the higher pressure (high end is set to 25 and they said I didn't show improvement below 20). I'm going to attend a support group tonight that is moderated by a nurse from the sleep center and I'll ask her again about it. Perhaps ifshe understands that I'm not using the machine for more than 20 minutes or so lately she'll reconsider.

I hate that feeling of my mouth being blasted full of air, it yanks me right back to consciousness. I have a lot of nasal congestion at different times of the day, partly due to seasonal allergies (use Nasonex spray), and when I wake up, I'm usually choking or gagging on mucus that forms from GERD: the acid gets up into the nasal passages and they get swollen and protect themselves by producing more mucus. That's what made me think that maybe I should try a nasal mask with a chin strap.

ellen1159 wrote: I called the sleep doc's office after the first few days and they told they were reluctant to lower my pressure, that I seemed to need the higher pressure

Yes, I understand that part of it but the higher pressure is pretty useless if you aren't using it.
Tell them you can't get used to it and you only want to have it lowered short term so that you can work up to the required pressure.
Or heck, lower it yourself one night only just to see if it is even possible. What are they going to do...slap your hands for changing the pressure a little or slap your hands for not using the machine for 5 nights at all?
Someone in that doctor's office has zero common sense and no experience using this stuff.

Have you checked with whatever insurance company you have to find out what compliance requirements there might be?
You may have that battle on your hands if this continues.

Maybe get the DME to run interference for you....sometimes if they call up the doctor's office and say so and so just can't adjust to the higher pressures and is simply not able to get enough time on the machine to do any good at all...maybe lower pressures for a little while and work up to full RX pressure.

ellen1159 wrote:

Have you thought about reducing the pressure that I suggested quite a while back and others have suggested recently?
Some pressure is better than no pressure from not using the mask and machine.
Start out with lower pressures that enable you to maintain a good seal....over come masks issues..then maybe start inching the pressures upwards till you get to a therapeutic level???

I called the sleep doc's office after the first few days and they told they were reluctant to lower my pressure, that I seemed to need the higher pressure (high end is set to 25 and they said I didn't show improvement below 20). I'm going to attend a support group tonight that is moderated by a nurse from the sleep center and I'll ask her again about it. Perhaps ifshe understands that I'm not using the machine for more than 20 minutes or so lately she'll reconsider.

I hate that feeling of my mouth being blasted full of air, it yanks me right back to consciousness. I have a lot of nasal congestion at different times of the day, partly due to seasonal allergies (use Nasonex spray), and when I wake up, I'm usually choking or gagging on mucus that forms from GERD: the acid gets up into the nasal passages and they get swollen and protect themselves by producing more mucus. That's what made me think that maybe I should try a nasal mask with a chin strap.

You may want to make sure she understands that you are asking only to lower the pressure for a short amount of time to give you a chance to adapt to the higher pressure. A brief period of lower than optimal pressure is better than no therapy at all.

Maby this should be brought back up.


viewtopic/t88639/desensitization.html



Long ago when i was thin i used a lot of the deep relaxation self hypnosis. But
now that I am fat if I try it my air way collapses. So If i wanted to do deep relaxation
now I would need to be using cpap while doing it!

Hello:

I had a MP3 hypnosis tape made for me on Fivver for $5. it suggest to me that I love to wear my mask among other things. You tell them what your tape is to say. Check it out, it worked for me. Search custom hypnosis

Sure, I am a trained hypnotist and use it in some form most every night.

Sometimes very formally with careful inductions and much of the time just casually through breathing and progressive relaxation.

As many people know, *my* introduction to CPAP has been amazingly smooth with only a little problem with nasal congestion early in the first week. Even with that congestion, I keep the mask on and slept well.

Did hypnosis make the difference? No one can say. I am only a single data point.

Did CPAPTalk make the difference? Same answer.

But in my opinion, but all of your help here on the forum AND the hypnosis made my entry to CPAP more certain and much easier.

Worst case, it gave me something to do while waiting to fall asleep and cost me nothing.


Does hypnosis work in general? Yes, and there is copious scientific proof of some effects, even amazing effects like control of bleeding and such.

Also note, that most scientific studies use TERRIBLE hypnotic inductions due to the necessity of "standardizing" the protocol. (Typically a recording is used or a fixed script read in generally the same way by a lab assistant.)

Effective hypnosis tailors the induction to the particular person and the actual response of that person (pacing and leading, using emphasis and rhythms consistent with the subjects breathing and response, etc.)

I had a custom hypnosis mp3 made on Fiverr for $5. You can have them say anything you want. I had suggestions about wearing my mask and sleeping though the night. Bottom line it works for me. I now sleep though the night with my mask on. Its well worth the $5 to try it.

HI everyone, I'm the OP on this thread but I haven't posted here in a while, mostly because I've been busy catching up on things I didn't do when my OA was untreated/undertreated. I've been using my BiPap machine faithfully all night, everynight, for nearly six months now, and I feel like a new person. I don't need to nap during the day, I don't have headaches, I've lost 44 lbs., I am able to walk 20 minutes without fatigue, I don't wake up during the night or if I do, it's just to adjust my mask and roll over and go back to sleep, don't even get up to go to the bathroom anymore.

At the time I wrote the original post, I didn't think I would ever get to this day. I was so overwhelmed by my machine and the horrendous pressures (which I'm still using by the way, my doc wants me to lose a few more lbs before she lowers it), which I was sure I would never get used to. Well, long story short, I did. I got a lot of support and encouragement from the folks here, I got adjusted to my machine in increments, and I stopped beating myself up for being scared, repulsed, frustrated. Doing breathing exercises and guided meditation helped a lot, and I did go back to my therapist and prescribing doc for a small amount of SSRI (Lexapro), since my anxiety level was pretty bad.

If you are recently diagnosed and think you just can't get used to this machine, don't give up. If I can do it, anyone can.

ellen1159 wrote:HI everyone, I'm the OP on this thread but I haven't posted here in a while, mostly because I've been busy catching up on things I didn't do when my OA was untreated/undertreated. I've been using my BiPap machine faithfully all night, everynight, for nearly six months now, and I feel like a new person. I don't need to nap during the day, I don't have headaches, I've lost 44 lbs., I am able to walk 20 minutes without fatigue, I don't wake up during the night or if I do, it's just to adjust my mask and roll over and go back to sleep, don't even get up to go to the bathroom anymore.

At the time I wrote the original post, I didn't think I would ever get to this day. I was so overwhelmed by my machine and the horrendous pressures (which I'm still using by the way, my doc wants me to lose a few more lbs before she lowers it), which I was sure I would never get used to. Well, long story short, I did. I got a lot of support and encouragement from the folks here, I got adjusted to my machine in increments, and I stopped beating myself up for being scared, repulsed, frustrated. Doing breathing exercises and guided meditation helped a lot, and I did go back to my therapist and prescribing doc for a small amount of SSRI (Lexapro), since my anxiety level was pretty bad.

If you are recently diagnosed and think you just can't get used to this machine, don't give up. If I can do it, anyone can.

I am so happy for you Ellen as I definitely remember the struggles you went through.

And in my opinion, your points about not fighting negative emotions are spot on. I have found that when I accept them for what they are, they don't last as long and have alot less power over me.

Congratulations by the way on your weight loss and being able to walk for an extended period without fatigue. Great job.

49er