ahi up, ahi down, ahi up, ahi down

[zonker]

greetings , all! i hope that you each can take a look at the sleepyhead graphs that i'm going t5o upload. please excuse me if they don'r upload properly or if i have the graph in the wrong order. just let me know if they are wrong and i'll re-do them.it's been a very long time since i've attempted this.

my problem is this- after several years of being at this, i find myself in a quandary. it's as simple as the title of my post. i can get my ahi down to what looks like a very good number. and i want to add that those lower numbers make me feel better. i wake up feeling much better if my ahi number is below 1 as compared to anything in the range of 2 or above.

however, the number does not STAY at any one level. i understand from reading here that we are all human and that we can expect to have those off nights when demons appear and just mess with our sleep and our numbers.

i feel that what i'm presenting here is different. it seems that i can do everything that i can think of to get my numbers down. but then they pop back up, then down, then back up. i'm stymied. i don't feel as though i'm doing anything different from night to night. it's almost as though it's just happening capriciously.

following are charts. can you see anything that jumps out at you? from the graph, is there something i'm missing?

[zonker]

sorry, not used to the attachment thingie, so these are out of sequence.

more-

screenshot-6-6.png

screenshot-6-5.png

screenshot-6-4.png

and bear with me, one more upcoming!

[Pugsy]

Please review this thread for which graphs to share.
viewtopic/t158560/How-to-post-images-for-review.html

Do you sometimes maybe spend more time on your back than other nights?

[zonker]

Please review this thread for which graphs to share.
viewtopic/t158560/How-to-post-images-for-review.html

Do you sometimes maybe spend more time on your back than other nights?

uhhh, not sure how that snore graph got in there! gremlins?

short answer regarding back sleeping= "yes" long answer is-"but not as much as i used to!". i know that i have a problem in that regard and have been fighting it. i can see on the charts where my oa goes up and thus my ahi. but i don't ALWAYS see that correlation.

the nights shown here and for the dates after? i really don't remember being on my back that much, in fact, very little. mostly when i wake up throughout the night, i'm on one side or the other.

plus, a sign that i will back sleep is when my back starts giving me discomfort and i am uncomfortable on my side. that hasn't happened for a goodly while.

so honestly i don't know if back sleeping is a culprit or not. i suspect no.

[Nick Danger]

Please review this thread for which graphs to share.
viewtopic/t158560/How-to-post-images-for-review.html

Do you sometimes maybe spend more time on your back than other nights?

plus, a sign that i will back sleep is when my back starts giving me discomfort and i am uncomfortable on my side. that hasn't happened for a goodly while.

so honestly i don't know if back sleeping is a culprit or not. i suspect no.

I find that a small pillow between my knees helps reduce back pain from sleeping on my side.

[Pugsy]

The 2 main culprits when we see a change in results.


Sleeping position or rem sleep. Eiteher one can also vary a lot.
End result....expect things to vary.

[zonker]

Please review this thread for which graphs to share.
viewtopic/t158560/How-to-post-images-for-review.html

Do you sometimes maybe spend more time on your back than other nights?

plus, a sign that i will back sleep is when my back starts giving me discomfort and i am uncomfortable on my side. that hasn't happened for a goodly while.

so honestly i don't know if back sleeping is a culprit or not. i suspect no.

I find that a small pillow between my knees helps reduce back pain from sleeping on my side.

thanks for that, nick! (i just LOVE your screen name.) i typically sleep with a knee pillow all the time, not just for times of back ache. i find that when my back acts up, laying on my back with a full pillow under my knees helps tremendously.

but as i've said, haven't had back problems over the last two or three weeks.

[zonker]

The 2 main culprits when we see a change in results.


Sleeping position or rem sleep. Eiteher one can also vary a lot.
End result....expect things to vary.

well, i was doing okay and just sort of rolling with it when my ahi would be, say, 0.77 one night then, say, 1.77 the next. but i started getting concerned when the gap between the numbers grew. also, it seems to be trending upwards.

but you're saying no need for concern regarding either of those?

will definitely try to stay off my back. and i know that the rem sleep bothers me already.

[Pugsy]

well, i was doing okay and just sort of rolling with it when my ahi would be, say, 0.77 one night then, say, 1.77 the next. but i started getting concerned when the gap between the numbers grew. also, it seems to be trending upwards.

but you're saying no need for concern regarding either of those?

What is increasing? Obstructive stuff (OAs any hyponeas) or the central stuff (clear airway).

I wouldn't worry at all not matter what they were with that small of a change but then mine bounces around anyway and that's actually normal for me. I might have 0.24 one night and the next night 3.24 AHI. Usually when I see an increase it's most often CAs/central and related more to crappy sleep secondary to pain. I don't sleep well because of the pain and I have SWJ centrals which aren't real.

If the slight increases bug you too much you need to learn how to tell asleep events from awake events first.
Awake events don't count and have to be mentally removed from the evaluation.
Takes time and experience learning to spot the difference and sometimes it's not easy.
Start here and watch all the videos on this page especially the last one.
http://freecpapadvice.com/sleepyhead-free-software

Remember...we can't do anything about the centrals anyway...and having a few that are real is normal.
So when looking at the increases...you have to look and see what category increased or was it pretty much equal.
If you are going to worry...make sure you worry about stuff worth worrying about.

I wouldn't bat an eye over a 1.0 increase...probably wouldn't even bother looking to see what increased either...but that's me and I have been doing this for over 9 years now and I really don't watch the numbers much anyway. I go by how I sleep and feel primarily.
Heck, I might go 2 or 3 months between downloads...that's how much I don't worry or watch stuff.
You need to do what is comfortable for you though...not necessarily what I do if you aren't comfortable with my attitude. I know it's not for everyone and that's fine.

I downloaded last week...it had been 45 days since my last download. I looked at the prior night and the one before that..at a glance really...and that was the extent of my evaluation of the last 45 days.

[zonker]

well, i was doing okay and just sort of rolling with it when my ahi would be, say, 0.77 one night then, say, 1.77 the next. but i started getting concerned when the gap between the numbers grew. also, it seems to be trending upwards.

but you're saying no need for concern regarding either of those?

What is increasing? Obstructive stuff (OAs any hyponeas) or the central stuff (clear airway).

I wouldn't worry at all not matter what they were with that small of a change but then mine bounces around anyway and that's actually normal for me. I might have 0.24 one night and the next night 3.24 AHI. Usually when I see an increase it's most often CAs/central and related more to crappy sleep secondary to pain. I don't sleep well because of the pain and I have SWJ centrals which aren't real.

If the slight increases bug you too much you need to learn how to tell asleep events from awake events first.
Awake events don't count and have to be mentally removed from the evaluation.
Takes time and experience learning to spot the difference and sometimes it's not easy.
Start here and watch all the videos on this page especially the last one.
http://freecpapadvice.com/sleepyhead-free-software

Remember...we can't do anything about the centrals anyway...and having a few that are real is normal.
So when looking at the increases...you have to look and see what category increased or was it pretty much equal.
If you are going to worry...make sure you worry about stuff worth worrying about.

I wouldn't bat an eye over a 1.0 increase...probably wouldn't even bother looking to see what increased either...but that's me and I have been doing this for over 9 years now and I really don't watch the numbers much anyway. I go by how I sleep and feel primarily.
Heck, I might go 2 or 3 months between downloads...that's how much I don't worry or watch stuff.
You need to do what is comfortable for you though...not necessarily what I do if you aren't comfortable with my attitude. I know it's not for everyone and that's fine.

I downloaded last week...it had been 45 days since my last download. I looked at the prior night and the one before that..at a glance really...and that was the extent of my evaluation of the last 45 days.

i merely meant my ahi was increasing at what i thought to be an alarming rate. so i gave an example of how that increased. i'm looking at sleepyhead right now and i see an example where on june 13th, my total ahi was 0.73. then on june 14th, my total ahi was 2.46. and my thinking is that this is something that is outside of what would be considered "normal".

so i'm rather relieved to read you telling me that this isn't necessarily "abnormal".

on that example i just gave, i can CLEARLY see an increase in obstructive events which explains why i went up to an ahi of 2.46.

i guess what i'm saying here in the end is that i needed someone to look at my charts and reassure me that all is normal and not something to worry about. i can work on staying off my back. and i can work on not getting too upset about the rem sleep as well. i think that plays into my worries too.


i'll give the videos a look as well. thanks for the link.

in the end, i don't think i'll ever have the easy attitude that you have towards therapy. but maybe i can learn to relax, just a little bit.

thanks!

[Pugsy]

Learn to trust how you feel.
Numbers are just numbers. Low numbers don't guarantee that you feel them. Higher numbers don't always mean something bad.
Learn to bring into the evaluation how you sleep and feel.
One of my best days years ago followed a night when the AHI was 10.2...yep..over 10. Go figure that one.

I started therapy in May 2009. Over the years I have tried all sorts of experiments to see what, if anything, changed.
I learned a lot and one of the main things that I learned was that my quantity of sleep is a primary indicator of how I feel the next day.
Much more so than the AHI.

Someone else might learn that they do feel markedly different with what to me would be a minor change in AHI or whatever.
Remember what I say often...everything related to sleep apnea and cpap all comes with a big YMMV sticker.
You just have to learn what it is that matters to you in terms of how you feel and how you sleep.

[TedVPAP]

Increasing your min pressure a little (1 or so) will help to stabilize (and lower) your AHI.

[zonker]

Learn to trust how you feel.
Numbers are just numbers. Low numbers don't guarantee that you feel them. Higher numbers don't always mean something bad.
Learn to bring into the evaluation how you sleep and feel.
One of my best days years ago followed a night when the AHI was 10.2...yep..over 10. Go figure that one.

I started therapy in May 2009. Over the years I have tried all sorts of experiments to see what, if anything, changed.
I learned a lot and one of the main things that I learned was that my quantity of sleep is a primary indicator of how I feel the next day.
Much more so than the AHI.

Someone else might learn that they do feel markedly different with what to me would be a minor change in AHI or whatever.
Remember what I say often...everything related to sleep apnea and cpap all comes with a big YMMV sticker.
You just have to learn what it is that matters to you in terms of how you feel and how you sleep.

use the force, luke!

i've been hoping for that "one weird trick doctors won't tell you!!". or at the very least, i wanted to make sure i wasn't overlooking something that would turn out to be dead simple.

alas, such is not to be.....

[zonker]

Increasing your min pressure a little (1 or so) will help to stabilize (and lower) your AHI.

oh, i'm sorry, ted. i sort of "tricked" you into that suggestion. originally, i made three posts, the last showing more graphs, plus i typed out some things about my therapy. for whatever reason, the third part didn't post.

part of what i wrote was that i can't raise my pressure above a minimum of 9.5 or i get a nice hard abdomen from all the gas it creates! i've read here from time to time that a lot of people have this problem initially and that one gets used to it and that it even goes away.

never happened for me. i wish i didn't have that particular side effect. sure would make cpap a lot easier for me.

[TedVPAP]

Increasing your min pressure a little (1 or so) will help to stabilize (and lower) your AHI.

oh, i'm sorry, ted. i sort of "tricked" you into that suggestion. originally, i made three posts, the last showing more graphs, plus i typed out some things about my therapy. for whatever reason, the third part didn't post.

part of what i wrote was that i can't raise my pressure above a minimum of 9.5 or i get a nice hard abdomen from all the gas it creates! i've read here from time to time that a lot of people have this problem initially and that one gets used to it and that it even goes away.

never happened for me. i wish i didn't have that particular side effect. sure would make cpap a lot easier for me.

Some times we have to balance other factors besides AHI. At least for awhile.
I understand. I persued the idea of having surgery because my stomach bloating was very painful.
I didn't have the surgery since the prospect for me lowering pressure was low.
After a few years the pain was gone.