Way to go - APOLOGY ALSO

The problem with members acting as moderators and labeling someone a troll is that it perpetuates exactly what this thread intended to stop.
1.) Respond to a post and correct any information without attacking the person, whose infomation you are correcting.
2.) Use self-restraint and don't reply if you don't have anything positive to contribute.
3.) Ignore a troll...most people can figure it out, you don't need to call it out.

It's really simple. As long as members feel compelled to moderate, threads will go off-topic. People will feel unjustly attacked and the gang bullying will persist. Just stop that. It's not so hard.

We don’t see things as they are; we see them as we are.
Talmudic origin

kteague wrote: We can't change others, we can only change ourselves.

I realized my limitations for this group long ago. I left long ago.
No drama.
I still check in everyday. Most of the people I came on board with
and the one who helped me save my life are gone. Hard to let go of something
that had such a profound affect on my life.
Truth be known, all those that have "left" in grand fanfare are still out there,
peaking in the window.....for any number of reasons.
Such is the internet. Such is life.

Sleeprider wrote:The problem with members acting as moderators and labeling someone a troll is that it perpetuates exactly what this thread intended to stop.
1.) Respond to a post and correct any information without attacking the person, whose infomation you are correcting.
2.) Use self-restraint and don't reply if you don't have anything positive to contribute.
3.) Ignore a troll...most people can figure it out, you don't need to call it out.

It's really simple. As long as members feel compelled to moderate, threads will go off-topic. People will feel unjustly attacked and the gang bullying will persist. Just stop that. It's not so hard.

+1

carbonman wrote:We don’t see things as they are; we see them as we are.
Talmudic origin

kteague wrote: We can't change others, we can only change ourselves.

I realized my limitations for this group long ago. I left long ago.
No drama.
I still check in everyday. Most of the people I came on board with
and the one who helped me save my life are gone. Hard to let go of something
that had such a profound affect on my life.
Truth be known, all those that have "left" in grand fanfare are still out there,
peaking in the window.....for any number of reasons.
Such is the internet. Such is life.

+1. Well, you've still got your bike, carbonman. You certainly made some good points. Sadly, "peeking in the window" isn't really the same thing as helping someone, but then everybody has to do what's right for them and reducing needless stress is a big goal for a lot of people (well, maybe not the trolls <sigh>). I try to make it a rule that if I visit one OT thread, such as this one, I try to contribute to a 'help' thread. It's just so easy to get lost in the rough, as my golfer friends say.

Sleeprider wrote:The problem with members acting as moderators and labeling someone a troll is that it perpetuates exactly what this thread intended to stop.
1.) Respond to a post and correct any information without attacking the person, whose infomation you are correcting.
2.) Use self-restraint and don't reply if you don't have anything positive to contribute.
3.) Ignore a troll...most people can figure it out, you don't need to call it out.

It's really simple. As long as members feel compelled to moderate, threads will go off-topic. People will feel unjustly attacked and the gang bullying will persist. Just stop that. It's not so hard.

+1

Pretty simple. It's no fun to argue with yourself.
But I realize that some people can't just let it pass without their 2 cents and then that's when the bickering starts. Someone takes the bait and we are off an running in another pissing contest where no one wins but they sure try their best to come out on top.

You can't change someone else with "moderation"...we can only change ourselves and how we respond with a "no response".....and unfortunately some people simply cannot see that simple fact.
They can't ignore and they just have to tell the whole world that this person is being an ass and can't see the fact that by doing so they have stooped down to the very level they are wanting to try to prevent.....and they just don't see it because they think they are justified for whatever reason...but they aren't.

That's the whole idea behind Johnny's philosophy ....self moderation is moderating ourselves....not someone else.

We can't change other people..it's like marrying someone you think is almost perfect and hope you can change them to make them perfect and we all know that doesn't work out so great. People don't change except to maybe for the worse. All we can do is try to change ourselves and/or how we respond (by not responding) to unacceptable behavior. It's hard...believe me I know first hand how hard it is and that's why this thread is here and why I am at war with myself as to whether or not I still want to participate here.
Yesterday I was of the mind set to say just "f..k 'em" and I was just going to not even finish my unfinished projects that were on my to do list before slinking away and not bothering to come back here even to lurk.
And contrary to what Carbonman says I won't still lurk. I have done it before and I can do it again.

I have come to realize that the people here who just like to be nasty can't see what they are and don't really care. I can't change them but I can change myself and right now that would mean that I would have to change in a negative manner so that the childish behavior no longer is offensive to me because right now it has come to the point that it overwhelms me. I can only take so much negativity and shit slinging and just in general being nasty minded .....and we long ago passed that limit.

I now regret coming forward and owning up to who Madalot was talking about. I pretty much knew what it would start but I was so hoping I was wrong....but at least with this thread the attention here has lessened the negative crap in other threads. so I guess some good has come of it even for a short while.

Something is still really bugging me though and I have struggled with how to respond without becoming the very thing that I hate. I can't get it straight in my head how to do it.....or maybe I shouldn't even do it...but it is really bugging me very much so. So I know first hand how difficult it is not to point out what I think (notice I said what I think) was unacceptable comments that led to the last straw that broke this camel's back.
That's my struggle right now...become what I hate or letting things that sicken me slide.

I can tell you it's quite a war inside me right now.

Would hate to see you go, as a newbie I have learned so much from everyone here but especially you. All I can say (speaking for the newbies) is you leaving would be a major loss to us who really need your help!!

Pugsy wrote: Something is still really bugging me though and I have struggled with how to respond without becoming the very thing that I hate. I can't get it straight in my head how to do it.....or maybe I shouldn't even do it...but it is really bugging me very much so. So I know first hand how difficult it is not to point out what I think (notice I said what I think) was unacceptable comments that led to the last straw that broke this camel's back.
That's my struggle right now...become what I hate or letting things that sicken me slide.

Just tell us what's troubling you... it's not good to bury these things inside where they just fester. If that's too hard right now, then communicate with some online friends and air it first that way; see what they have to say. Well, maybe some of your more tight-lipped friends.

Pugsy wrote:Yesterday I was of the mind set to say just "f..k 'em" and I was just going to not even finish my unfinished projects that were on my to do list before slinking away and not bothering to come back here even to lurk.

Pugsy, You have 33,000 posts and many of these are lengthy. You have said before that each of your responses is written out to specifically address the thread you are posting in. That is a mountain of work.

We know that many people who come here and get good advice either never reply back or just never become successful with CPAP. That could be frustrating to someone like you who works so hard.

You obviously are a very resilient person. But even the most resilient person has their limits. I don't think you are suffering burnout, but you should take a look at how much load you are carrying. It might be time for a sabbatical.

You will always be welcomed back.

Maybe Pugsy won't see this because likely I am on her Foe List. But, I wanted to say it anyway.

Hang Fire wrote:

Pugsy wrote:Yesterday I was of the mind set to say just "f..k 'em" and I was just going to not even finish my unfinished projects that were on my to do list before slinking away and not bothering to come back here even to lurk.

Pugsy, You have 33,000 posts and many of these are lengthy. You have said before that each of your responses is written out to specifically address the thread you are posting in. That is a mountain of work.

We know that many people who come here and get good advice either never reply back or just never become successful with CPAP. That could be frustrating to someone like you who works so hard.

You obviously are a very resilient person. But even the most resilient person has their limits. I don't think you are suffering burnout, but you should take a look at how much load you are carrying. It might be time for a sabbatical.

You will always be welcomed back.

Maybe Pugsy won't see this because likely I am on her Foe List. But, I wanted to say it anyway.

Now Pugsy will see this awesome post to try and address her discomfort.

My opinion is that its all about what we "perceive" to be out of line. The folks that think we should be "nice" (wrong word) will come back to tell us we are wrong and the folks that have a stronger method of helping will do the same ... its not a win win situation is it. Perception is the key and that is what has been wrong in the past few months, one side says something that they think is absolutely right and the other side comes back to tell you that you are wrong, wrong.... and then it goes on and on. We don't need members to gang together in a group and moderate this forum, we need members to think before they post... by themselves. I think the "crickets" bit is degrading and we will start the fracas all over again when someone says it to another or even pm's them with it. We need to moderate OURSELVES and THINK before we post...... and most importantly IGNORE those that are trying to shape you into the same mold as they themselves are. We are all different, we do not all have the same personalities.. it would certainly be a different and boring place if we all spewed the same rhetoric. .
Off my soap box now.
Cheers to all and please try to get along. We have managed to push out a couple of the most important members here, its time to THINK!!!!!!!!
Nan

"My opinion is that its all about what we "perceive" to be out of line. The folks that think we should be "nice" (wrong word) will come back to tell us we are wrong and the folks that have a stronger method of helping will do the same ... its not a win win situation is it. Perception is the key and that is what has been wrong in the past few months, one side says something that they think is absolutely right and the other side comes back to tell you that you are wrong, wrong.... and then it goes on and on. We don't need members to gang together in a group and moderate this forum, we need members to think before they post... by themselves. I think the "crickets" bit is degrading and we will start the fracas all over again when someone says it to another or even pm's them with it. We need to moderate OURSELVES and THINK before we post...... and most importantly IGNORE those that are trying to shape you into the same mold as they themselves are. We are all different, we do not all have the same personalities.. it would certainly be a different and boring place if we all spewed the same rhetoric."

+100

well if this thread isnt a way to drive away new people.... such as myself.....

damn, i am a new guy here, just signed up, and now i see this thread? why did i even bother to sign up? first of all i saw some of pugs posts on tapatalk, and a few others as well...i guess tapatalk only shows the threads of people getting help? and chooses to leave the sh*it slinging threads out ? i dunno, but what i do know is that people have become WAY too damn sensitive...even if THEY are right about something, well maybe the other person is too, what we all think we are right about in life usually pertains to US, our selves and our own understandings....and our own experiences.... who cares if someone is a pita, who cares? get over ourselves and move on in life, help people because thats what we want to do....

well this sucks, not sure, maybe ill go join a different cpap forum now....

Julie wrote:The OP is still there, so I'm not sure what you're referring to... what pg did you look at - I think that link went to pg 2 (of 3) but should have gone to 1. And to be fair, he(?) did not come back at all, even after the first page of perfectly 'nice' notes were written, so that's when the goofs began posting... not to excuse them, but this happens a lot too - someone new will show up saying they're in dire straits or whatever, a bunch of people will reply with valid (or at least good tries) help, but the OP is never heard from again, so then the nuttiness and meaness starts - a way of letting off steam maybe, a response to what was initially some tension around wanting to help someone in distress... childish, but not terrible (until it develops into that).

I respectfully disagree... he is still here... he has chosen to read here (and the other board) so that he will not encounter some of the people he met in his thread.

Julie wrote:The OP is still there, so I'm not sure what you're referring to... what pg did you look at - I think that link went to pg 2 (of 3) but should have gone to 1. And to be fair, he(?) did not come back at all, even after the first page of perfectly 'nice' notes were written, so that's when the goofs began posting... not to excuse them, but this happens a lot too - someone new will show up saying they're in dire straits or whatever, a bunch of people will reply with valid (or at least good tries) help, but the OP is never heard from again, so then the nuttiness and meaness starts - a way of letting off steam maybe, a response to what was initially some tension around wanting to help someone in distress... childish, but not terrible (until it develops into that).

The very first post in the thread is gone with a "wasted my time" or "Waste of time"

The 7th post kind of makes it obvious that people are not treating this person well "Guys, be nice! Depression is a REAL THING! It is not laziness, or sloth"

"even after the first page of perfectly 'nice' notes were written" I admit that the first page was not a full frontal attack like does happen sometimes, however there is clear indication that something was not being very helpful at least-make what sure seems like joking about where the OP could find employment.

Some day this type of thing will happen and the OP will pull a Robin WIlliams. And yes we are responsible IF the depression is identified and the unhelpful behavior continues, of course we could always ask why so may unhelpful posts happen here in the first palce.

"And to be fair, he(?) did not come back at all" well we know that the OP did not post again, we do not know if they continued to read the thread.

I don't know when the OP actually left the thread, but the responses to the OP first post caused them to not post again until they deleted their first post. Then once someone asking for help was chased away, there was actually some decent conversations about depression going on.

So just for fun(?) I looked at when the last edit was on the OP: Last edited by SleepyTheApneaDwarf on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:04 am
and then looked at what was going on just before that, near the end of page 2

"There are none. Being constantly tired from sleep apnea or depression or whatever...you fill in the blank means either your doctor is withholding necessary care from you. Or you are not following doctor's orders. One of the two. Or you are not pursuing proper specialist care for whatever reason, financial, too tired, apathy from depression, etc.

Maybe apply for SS disability if you are too far gone to help yourself and save employers the hassle of having to deal with overly fatigued, disabled employees"

This is a very good example of what not to say to a depressed person. It shows a clear lack of understanding about the condition, not that someone on a sleep apnea forum should know about depression, but we should know enough to not tell the person it is their fault IF WE DON"T KNOW FOR SURE WHAT WE ARE DOING. If this was a physical condition would anyone have responded in a similar way?

J2048b wrote:well this sucks, not sure, maybe ill go join a different cpap forum now...

Your choice but this forum is a bit unique and it probably isn't everyone's cup of tea. Personalities do clash here and sometimes it gets ugly.
It's sort of like a big family gathering....someone always seems to get their nose bent out of shape because of what someone says or the way they say it and sometimes you simply have to elect not to "talk" to the people you don't care for.

I have to deal with in my own immediate family but I don't have to deal with it here...hence my struggle.

Hang Fire wrote:Maybe Pugsy won't see this because likely I am on her Foe List. But, I wanted to say it anyway.

Actually you are not on my Foe List...been tempted a few times but you haven't made it there yet.
I don't really get all that upset with your occasional "barbs"...I will admit that I do sometimes want to reach through the computer and give you a good whack with my 2 X 4 though.

I do appreciate your kind words...along with all the others here who have said similar thoughts.

Sir NoddinOff wrote:Just tell us what's troubling you... it's not good to bury these things inside where they just fester.

I don't know that I am yet ready for that...even privately.... because I know it will start World War III and I don't want to become what I dislike so much. I should have spoken up when it happened...that's why I am kicking myself in the ass so much now. I let something slide when I really didn't want to ...perhaps I am being too sensitive though. Perhaps if I share privately with someone (who will promise forever not to make it public unless I agree) then I can get another person's perspective on my take to see if maybe I am in the wrong with my thinking.
It's really bothering me though...can't sleep...can't eat....don't know if I want to stay or go.
And it really was a little straw...but like so many things...it's the combination that breaks the camel's back.