SoClean 2: Am I a sucker??

Yes sometimes lawyers have to force their clients to tell the truth, even if their clients choose to hide that truth in the small print.

Perhaps SoClean has not successfully been sued. Yet. But their scare-mongering tactics in their sloppy commercials with baseless claims of the dangers of CPAP machines will, I believe, eventually bring the publicly-stated ire of the entire industry in the form of various severe statements of official push-back. And I will be there in spirit to clap my hands and nod my head.

If you can't convince any manufacturers that you product has any real value to anyone, why prey on the less-informed with calculated disinformation? Greed.

Shameful. Dishonest. Misleading. Possibly soon-to-be-publicly-shown as illegal. I certainly hope so.

CapnLoki wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:17 am

Righteous wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:41 am

Well CPAP machines are actually small compressors, and compressors generate static electricity. Where you have static electricity you have ozone. I’d hope all the important seals are ozone resistant, but maybe they manufacture for planned failure after so many years.

Cpap pumps are actually fans, with brushless DC motors which generate little if any ozone. It sounds like you're just making this up.

The fan is being used to increase the pressure... so it acts like a compressor. There are lots of methods to create a compressor... pistons, diaphragm, etc.

It’s not the motor that generates the ozone, it’s the act of compressing the air... think lots of air friction...

I work in the computer industry, and generally you don’t want to blow compressor air at computers to clean then because of the static.

ResMed's cleaning protocol is clearly documented in the provider manual.

Start with Page 22 since that is what they specifically are talking about when someone else has used the machine and/or other equipment...multiple users.
https://sleep.tnet.com/home/files/resme ... -guide.pdf

I don't know about you guys and gals but the absence of some sort of cleaning regiment doesn't mean to me that it is okay or they recommend it. Just because they don't mention the SoClean as something NOT to do doesn't mean they think it is OKAY to do.
They don't mention not nuking things in the microwave either...doesn't mean it's safe to do.

Those of you who need some sort of justification to use the SoClean device...like just because ResMed doesn't say not to do it...I don't think that is a good road to go down.
Personally I feel that if you want to use it and it gives you peace of mind and you didn't take food off the table to buy it...hey, it's your money and your equipment to do with as you please. Not my job to dictate how you spend your money but don't fool yourselves into thinking that if ResMed doesn't specifically say "don't do something" that it is okay to do it anyway.

I spend my money on whatever I want...I have no need to justify it to anyone. Why you guys who need to justify your buying the SoClean device to us and get us to say "OMG you are right, you are so smart to do it"...beyond me. It's not going to happen...you aren't going to get anyone here (who doesn't want to use the device) to change their mind. Why bother? It's the same old argument we have had here a gazillion times in the past 9 years (that I know of) and it's not going to change.

Who do you need to make happy? Certainly not me...I don't care what you do with your equipment. I don't care what you do with your money either. To me the only person you guys need to make happy is yourself. What do you really care what someone else might think about what you do with your money or equipment?

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:30 am

I don't know about you guys and gals but the absence of some sort of cleaning regiment doesn't mean to me that it is okay or they recommend it. Just because they don't mention the SoClean as something NOT to do doesn't mean they think it is OKAY to do.
They don't mention not nuking things in the microwave either...doesn't mean it's safe to do.

Well I don't think the absence of evidence is the same as evidence of absence.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

I could rephrase what you wrote as "So likewise the absence of some sort of cleaning regiment doesn't mean to me that it is NOT okay or they DONT recommend it. Just because they don't mention the SoClean as something TO do doesn't mean they think it is BAD to do" Both are equally valid. The fact is we don't have any evidence one way or the other. (at least that I'm aware of)

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:30 am

Why you guys who need to justify your buying the SoClean device to us and get us to say "OMG you are right, you are so smart to do it"...beyond me.

I've got no skin in the game... just trying to help spread some information. I see a lot of conjecture and hearsay, not many facts. I'm a scientist and prefer facts to help make my decision. I figured other people trying to analyze SoClean would look in threads like this and would look for facts to help them decide.

An example of facts... people in this thread were talking about pink slime in the resevoir. Thats a bacteria called Serratia marcescens. You can read about how it causes hospital aquired infections here... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serratia_marcescens

Again... I'm not saying it's worth it. I'm not even saying it's NOT a total waste of money. It may be. But if we want to explain why it may be a waste of money, facts go further than jibes and calling people stupid for considering it.

Perhaps future manuals from manufacturers will NEED to clarify and specifiy what sorts of cleaning are NOT necessary, in order to protect users from falling for misleading advertising from the likes of SoClean.

If the SoClean business model works as a resurrection of the snake-oil business in the form of these kinds of misguided applications of technology in the medical realm to prey on people, it becomes clearer what needs to be done.

For example, the more that patients tell their doctors that they afraid to use CPAP because of the scary commercials they are hearing about how dangerous it is, the more the members of the AASM will be forced to consider coming together to counter the lies being sputtered across the airwaves.

Righteous wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:41 am

palerider wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:55 pm

Righteous wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:15 pm

It’s a good point about potential damage to the machine... I guess it’s hard to say what materials are used in any given machine. One would hope they would use ozone risistant materials like silicon,

Why? the manufacturers don't recommend soclean.

Well CPAP machines are actually small compressors,

They're not compressors... they're fans. I've opened multiples... just fans. Computer controlled fans, true, but fans none the less.

Righteous wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:46 am

I could rephrase what you wrote

You can rephrase it however you choose. Doesn't make it correct though. You know what they say about assuming anything.

I haven't washed my water chamber in a while. I think I will go nuke it in the microwave since no one at ResMed tells me it is not safe to to do that. I don't have any common sense to think for myself.

Whatever floats your boat folks. I really won't be losing any sleep over what you all do with your money or equipment nor will I be wasting my time telling you what to do or not do.
And more importantly I won't be wasting my time trying to change anyone's mind about what they choose to do or not do.

I NEVER said "regiment".
That word describes a group of soldiers--NOT a program of maintenance.
Google the word--or find a dictionary!

palerider wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:54 am

Righteous wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:41 am

palerider wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:55 pm

Righteous wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:15 pm

It’s a good point about potential damage to the machine... I guess it’s hard to say what materials are used in any given machine. One would hope they would use ozone risistant materials like silicon,

Why? the manufacturers don't recommend soclean.

Well CPAP machines are actually small compressors,

They're not compressors... they're fans. I've opened multiples... just fans. Computer controlled fans, true, but fans none the less.

A fan by itself does't increase pressure. The fan is being used to reduce the volume of the air, thereby increasing the pressure. Put a fan at the end of a hose and see if you get CPAP type pressure. If you block the exit, and prevent backflow, then you'll get pressure. And then you've just invented a fan driven compressor.

Actually "regiment" can be used as a verb and doesn't have to be a noun

verb
verb: regiment; 3rd person present: regiments; past tense: regimented; past participle: regimented; gerund or present participle: regimenting
ˈrejəmənt/

1.
organize according to a strict, sometimes oppressive system or pattern.

jnk... wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:52 am

Perhaps future manuals from manufacturers will NEED to clarify and specifiy what sorts of cleaning are NOT necessary,

That's going to be a long list...
Types of cleaning not necessary:

• 10 minutes in household microwave
• Radioactive steriliation
• Steam steriliation
• flushing with any kind of liquids (that should take care of a bunch)
• 30 minutes in a 350 degree oven
• etc.

My position is that their product may not kill anyone, so live and let live. But their commercials and shills just might scare people away from a lifesaving treatment. And that motivates me to speak up, despite my better judgment.

Righteous wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:58 am

A fan by itself does't increase pressure. The fan is being used to reduce the volume of the air, thereby increasing the pressure. Put a fan at the end of a hose and see if you get CPAP type pressure. If you block the exit, and prevent backflow, then you'll get pressure. And then you've just invented a fan driven compressor.

I'm sorry, but while you may be in computers, you clearly don't understand the physical operation principles of a cpap flow generator, nor, I'll wager, have you had the *FAN* inside a variety of them in your hand.

Call it a "compressor" if you want to continue to muddle the waters, as you seem to desire to do.

palerider wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:59 am

jnk... wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:52 am

Perhaps future manuals from manufacturers will NEED to clarify and specifiy what sorts of cleaning are NOT necessary,

That's going to be a long list...
Types of cleaning not necessary:

• 10 minutes in household microwave
• Radioactive steriliation
• Steam steriliation
• flushing with any kind of liquids (that should take care of a bunch)
• 30 minutes in a 350 degree oven
• etc.

Or a simple, "no cleaning beyond what is specified here is necessary, so please don't listen to the cr*p said in SoClean commercials."

Yeah. That might do it.

jnk... wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:01 pm

My position is that their product may not kill anyone, so live and let live. But their commercials and shills just might scare people away from a life-saving treatment. And that motivates me to speak up, despite my better judgment.

I haven't seen their advertisements, so you might be right. If they are doing that, that's pretty sh**ty and I'd have to agree with you. Though it may mean they are scummy and scare mongers... it doesn't mean the machine doesn't work. I'm 100% positive it's not required, but if that is their advertising message, then that's pretty crappy.