Sleeping well without a CPAP

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:18 am

Muse-Inc wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:25 am
, no REM sleep--my brain was just not going to let me get deep, restorative sleep

REM and "deep, restorative" sleep are not the same thing

MVPinBoynton · Post by **MVPinBoynton** » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:41 am

jhuckabyjr wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:32 pm
Even if you don't have problems with CPAP, it's good to look at the various topics posted here and educate yourself. I'm pretty much status quo on my therapy, but there is nothing wrong with learning something new. I'm on here at least once a day to see what topics are posted.

I couldn't agree more! I am hooked. I check this and the Apnea board posts several times a day, since I have been learning so much from the posts.

Midwest_non_sleeper · Post by **Midwest_non_sleeper** » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:48 am

Muse-Inc wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:25 am
I am in the severe category at AHI=62 -- all hypopneas! Desatted to 83%...yikes, on hypops, yes indeedy, no REM sleep--my brain was just not going to let me get deep, restorative sleep during which I might have died from sleep apnea. They noted 'profound snoring' When I saw the brain waves, it was shocking, mostly huge waves showing my brain was panicing, very few small waveforms typical of normal, err non-hosehead, sleep.

There isn't a whole lot of correlation between your AHI number and how deep desats go, other than you have more of them if you're severe. As an example, my apnea is extremely "mild" at only 10.9 average AHI per night, but I was hitting 02 desats of 81% at their lowest, which turned into an "oh crap" moment for my medical team. Some people have a ton of apneic events, but their desats don't go below 90%, while others have very few events, but their desats are very deep, as in my case. Cognitive problems become pronounced below an 85% saturation rate along with long-term organ damage, including cardiac arrest. Severe mental impairments are seen at 65% and below. Anything below that and you're talking about a high chance of mortality.

Worst case is a high volume of events AND deep desats.

OP, have you started therapy? If so, how is it going? Is the mask as big of a problem as you thought it would be? If yes, give it some time. It took me a few months to really feel comfortable with it, because the human brain is astute at getting used to things that are no longer deemed a threat. The more you wear it, the quicker your brain accepts it.

MVPinBoynton · Post by **MVPinBoynton** » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:01 am

Midwest_non_sleeper wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:48 am

Muse-Inc wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:25 am
I am in the severe category at AHI=62 -- all hypopneas! Desatted to 83%...yikes, on hypops, yes indeedy, no REM sleep--my brain was just not going to let me get deep, restorative sleep during which I might have died from sleep apnea. They noted 'profound snoring' When I saw the brain waves, it was shocking, mostly huge waves showing my brain was panicing, very few small waveforms typical of normal, err non-hosehead, sleep.
There isn't a whole lot of correlation between your AHI number and how deep desats go, other than you have more of them if you're severe. As an example, my apnea is extremely "mild" at only 10.9 average AHI per night, but I was hitting 02 desats of 81% at their lowest, which turned into an "oh crap" moment for my medical team. Some people have a ton of apneic events, but their desats don't go below 90%, while others have very few events, but their desats are very deep, as in my case. Cognitive problems become pronounced below an 85% saturation rate along with long-term organ damage, including cardiac arrest. Severe mental impairments are seen at 65% and below. Anything below that and you're talking about a high chance of mortality.

Worst case is a high volume of events AND deep desats.

OP, have you started therapy? If so, how is it going? Is the mask as big of a problem as you thought it would be? If yes, give it some time. It took me a few months to really feel comfortable with it, because the human brain is astute at getting used to things that are no longer deemed a threat. The more you wear it, the quicker your brain accepts it.

I have been on therapy for three nights. I am quite pleased with he P10. I started a thread about my first night with the device, that I have updated though today. My AHI was 11.9 and 11.8; but I slept well. Last night it was .68; but I didn't get to sleep until around 4:30 AM due to a cold and sore throat that started before my therapy started. I think all will be well.

Midwest_non_sleeper · Post by **Midwest_non_sleeper** » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:08 am

MVPinBoynton wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:01 am

Midwest_non_sleeper wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:48 am

Muse-Inc wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:25 am
I am in the severe category at AHI=62 -- all hypopneas! Desatted to 83%...yikes, on hypops, yes indeedy, no REM sleep--my brain was just not going to let me get deep, restorative sleep during which I might have died from sleep apnea. They noted 'profound snoring' When I saw the brain waves, it was shocking, mostly huge waves showing my brain was panicing, very few small waveforms typical of normal, err non-hosehead, sleep.
There isn't a whole lot of correlation between your AHI number and how deep desats go, other than you have more of them if you're severe. As an example, my apnea is extremely "mild" at only 10.9 average AHI per night, but I was hitting 02 desats of 81% at their lowest, which turned into an "oh crap" moment for my medical team. Some people have a ton of apneic events, but their desats don't go below 90%, while others have very few events, but their desats are very deep, as in my case. Cognitive problems become pronounced below an 85% saturation rate along with long-term organ damage, including cardiac arrest. Severe mental impairments are seen at 65% and below. Anything below that and you're talking about a high chance of mortality.

Worst case is a high volume of events AND deep desats.

OP, have you started therapy? If so, how is it going? Is the mask as big of a problem as you thought it would be? If yes, give it some time. It took me a few months to really feel comfortable with it, because the human brain is astute at getting used to things that are no longer deemed a threat. The more you wear it, the quicker your brain accepts it.
I have been on therapy for three nights. I am quite pleased with he P10. I started a thread about my first night with the device, that I have updated though today. My AHI was 11.9 and 11.8; but I slept well. Last night it was .68; but I didn't get to sleep until around 4:30 AM due to a cold and sore throat that started before my therapy started. I think all will be well.

Very good, keep at it. Also, many people take the position, myself included, that if they're in a position in which sleep is likely, the mask and machine are on.

Muse-Inc · Post by **Muse-Inc** » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:30 am

palerider wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:18 am

Muse-Inc wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:25 am
no REM sleep--my brain was just not going to let me get deep, restorative sleep
REM and "deep, restorative" sleep are not the same thing

Oops, my bad, you are correct. I had less than 4 mins of Stage 3 and no Stage 4 sleep in addition to no REM, hence comment no deep, restorative sleep. When sleep doc saw that and my totally screwed up blood chemistry, he warned me not to make any medical decisions based on the bloodwork until I'd been on CPAP therapy at least 12 months because he described my test results as a "chemical stew"

He theorized that it would likely take that long for my bloodwork to show things normalizing from the mess they were at that time. He was right, it did take that long before my bloodwork started falling within normal ranges.

https://www.ninds.nih.gov/Disorders/Pat ... ding-Sleep
REM sleep first occurs about 90 minutes after falling asleep. Your eyes move rapidly from side to side behind closed eyelids. Mixed frequency brain wave activity becomes closer to that seen in wakefulness. Your breathing becomes faster and irregular, and your heart rate and blood pressure increase to near waking levels. Most of your dreaming occurs during REM sleep, although some can also occur in non-REM sleep. Your arm and leg muscles become temporarily paralyzed, which prevents you from acting out your dreams. As you age, you sleep less of your time in REM sleep. Memory consolidation most likely requires both non-REM and REM sleep.

Sleeping well without a CPAP

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