Question for the Wisdom of the Group on Power Failures

LSAT wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:22 pm

I think if it was an event such as a hurricane, most people would have been encouraged to evacuate to safer locations . Hopefully they would have brought their machines. I know that if I was involved in a flood, hurricane or winter disaster, I would not be sleeping much during that period....machine or not.

See my post to Robert. I'm in New Orleans. I live on ground that is higher than I would have to cross to evacuate. In most cases (Hurricane Katrina in 2005 being an exception), I'm safer at home than on the road, or in a motel.

Plus, there's finding a motel that will take 2 dogs and 25 rats. (The rats are my partners in teaching Barn Hunt, a dog sport.) Leaving either dogs or rats to die of starvation or thirst is not an option.

We now have a whole house generator.

You'd be surprised what you can sleep through -- it's like soldiering. You can't go outside and do anything. So you grab some sleep when you can so you're rested when an emergency strikes.

Kiralynx wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:05 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:32 pm

Try to keep up with the progress that utilities are making. The innovative changes in the electric grid are being made rapidly without any interference from a bunch of idiots in Washington. Get Washington involved and watch innovation slow way down and costs go way up.

While I mostly agree with you that getting Washington involved could be problematic, I sure as hades haven't seen innovative changes in the grid.

Sometimes, i wonder what kind of propaganda Granny is consuming on a regular basis... it's a bit worrying.

Kiralynx wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:05 pm

While I mostly agree with you that getting Washington involved could be problematic, I sure as hades haven't seen innovative changes in the grid.

I have no idea what is going on with your New Orleans utility company. They may be horrible as many other things in New Orleans are.

Here are just a few of the things my utility has done and is in the process of doing:

- “Self-healing” grid technology is now available across the entire network

- Backup power stored in batteries from solar-powered microgrids when storms strike is being used to maintain power in isolated communities.

- Distribution automation systems can now detect and react to problems as they occur — a tree falling across power lines, for example — and isolate them to reduce the number of customers affected and alert repair staff. A Department of Energy study last year estimated that utilities will have quadrupled their spending on automation between 2014 and 2024.

- Hardening of physical structures, such as power poles, aims to create designs with more predictable failure points when falling trees strike them.

- The pole remains standing up but the crossarm breaks. The result is a much faster repair.

- The use of drones. They’ve come on the scene among utilities only in the past couple of years, and offer the ability to assess damage faster than ever and with more data. Research is being done now to be able to also use them at night.

K, I'm sorry that you have such problems in New Orleans. It's such a beautiful city with wonderful history. We visited it many times when we were young enough to travel. The residents deserve better than what they seem to be getting.

palerider wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:44 pm

Sometimes, i wonder what kind of propaganda Granny is consuming on a regular basis... it's a bit worrying.

PR, if you would follow the journal of the Electric Power Research Institute ( http://eprijournal.com/ ), you could educate yourself and reduce your nagsome worrying.

I didn't intend this thread to be about utility companies and their merits. It was to bring up the concept that interrupted CPAP therapy may possibly be far more dangerous than I believe most of the medical profession and perhaps many of us believed it to be. Not certain that is true because as far as I know, nobody has looked at this data either retrospectively or prospectively.

And if that postulate is true, then backup power supplies become more of a medical necessity than a luxury, regardless of who pays for it. A good car battery is $150.
If the underlying premise is indeed true, the power company would not be able to deny "early restore" status to a CPAP patient as one poster said happened to them. If the premise is true, it would likely tip many of us into getting that generator we had been thinking about for years.

I'm in on this one.

Even though power companies have made innovations (even in the absence of true competition of an open market), local or regional grids can and do still go down. Their response times may be better, but we are still beholden to mother nature. Being originally from deep south Louisiana, hurricanes Andrew (1992), Georges (1998), Frances (1998), Katrina (2005), etc, have taught me that. After Andrew, which we rode out when it was a relatively "weak" category 3, there was still standing water in the streets even a couple weeks after. Power was out for almost a month and a good portion of our roof was simply gone.

I will not advocate for government to come in and mandate that insurance companies must pay for something, because that's some pretty slippery ground, but I WILL advocate for the people themselves to know what their needs are and then take steps accordingly. As an employee of government for the last 22+ years, I have seen it be woefully inefficient, even in the best of times.

The problem, of course, is that largely people will NOT do what they need to do with any regularity in order to ensure their own health and safety. I have seen, all too often, that a majority of people are more than content to go about their business and never give a second thought to the things they should really be worried about in their personal lives. Chalk it up to social media, or an abundance of pure apathy, or whatever, but it is nonetheless the truth of the matter. The bottom line is, if insurance companies are forced to pay for an additional cost of something, the cost of which will inherently be passed down to other people in the form of raised premiums, I will bet anyone a dollar to doughnut that those "free" items will remain unused and eventually just be thrown away.

Welcome to the world of side tracking topics. Happens fairly often here and not much I can do about it. Ignore and move on.

I hear what you originally said and I don't know of any studies done to confirm your original thoughts that could maybe be used to put pressure on an insurance company to pay for back up power.
If it were possible then not only cpap users but everyone on some sort of device needed for breathing assistance would be wanting insurance to pay for it and it's just not likely to happen.
Insurance is likely to simply say "make other arrangements" and wash their hands of you. Cold hard fact of life.

The logistics of doing such a study would be extremely difficult I would think. Who in their right mind would want to volunteer for such a study for one thing. I know I wouldn't want to. I have already done one night without (had nothing to do with power failure either) cpap and know exactly what happens to me and it wasn't pretty.
Add in the fact that insurance companies are going to be extremely difficult to the already difficult to do study....I just don't see it being something that is going to happen. There may be a study done somewhere but I haven't seen it.

Finally...just because we need something doesn't always mean the insurance company will pay for it. Any number of examples out there and just because a doctor writes a RX for something doesn't always mean the insurance company will pay for it.
From medications not covered to procedures not covered (I am in this boat myself) to maybe that hot tub that my doctor would write the order for but insurance isn't going to pay for....lots of stuff insurance simply won't pay for. It is what it is. Cold hard fact of life.

We just have to make other arrangements if at all possible and in my case I opted for a generator that would take care of the bulk of my household needs should I ever be without power for prolonged periods of time.
In over 10 years of cpap use....never had the need though.

Battery power is pretty much considered a luxury--at least by insurance companies.
(Which are businesses in every sense)
We either pay for what we need, or go without.
Alternate power can be relatively affordable--check cap'n loki's thread.

I have been thinking of the possibility of a power failure as well. I live in Texas, and while we don’t have too much severe weather, we have had ice or severe cold a few times which could result in a several day outage. We are considering a generator with multiple fuel options or at least being able to use our natural gas line. I also have looked at back up batteries, which vary in price, but it appears they just work one night without having to be recharged, so in the event of needing multiple nights, you would have to go elsewhere to recharge it, which could be a problem.
I probably will buy some sort of back up access but not really concerned if insurance will pay. It would be nice if I can use HSA funds for it though.

Pugsy, one simple study is to retrospectively look at a large group of CPAP patients under treatment in an area hit by a hurricane like Florence in Carolina or Irma in FL and see if that cohort has a higher rate of hospitalization or death in the week or two following the storm. These thought leaders are quite expert at study design and they have cadres of research fellowsto do the footwork.

Yes...but even if you get one study done and it proves without a doubt people die from not being able to use cpap....the same could be said from any life saving device and that won't necessarily force insurance companies to pay for batteries or whatever to have on hand for "just in case".

Case in point...people on ventilators at home right now....how many of those people have had their insurance pay for some sort of back up power?

You can prove it....and they still doesn't mean insurance will pay for it.
Insurance used to pay for a procedure that I need to have done...now they deem it "experimental" and won't pay for it.
It's proven it works and it is what I need....but that doesn't mean insurance will pay for it.

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:53 am

Here are just a few of the things my utility has done and is in the process of doing:

- “Self-healing” grid technology is now available across the entire network

- Backup power stored in batteries from solar-powered microgrids when storms strike is being used to maintain power in isolated communities.

- Distribution automation systems can now detect and react to problems as they occur — a tree falling across power lines, for example — and isolate them to reduce the number of customers affected and alert repair staff. A Department of Energy study last year estimated that utilities will have quadrupled their spending on automation between 2014 and 2024.

- Hardening of physical structures, such as power poles, aims to create designs with more predictable failure points when falling trees strike them.

- The pole remains standing up but the crossarm breaks. The result is a much faster repair.

- The use of drones. They’ve come on the scene among utilities only in the past couple of years, and offer the ability to assess damage faster than ever and with more data. Research is being done now to be able to also use them at night.

K, I'm sorry that you have such problems in New Orleans. It's such a beautiful city with wonderful history. We visited it many times when we were young enough to travel. The residents deserve better than what they seem to be getting.

The closest thing to automation I've seen is the auto-reporting meter, which I got after the meter reader unlocked my gate IN SPITE OF the sign on it which says "Do Not Enter Without Permission" and let my dogs out -- one of them an AKC Grand Champion who's worth some serious bucks.

I have already experienced the negative health results that the OP was talking about. While I doubt insurance will ever pay for batteries for CPAPs, it does seem to me that if you could get them onto an economy of scale and bring the cost down significantly, which would at least make them more affordable.

In the severe category and now without the blood chemistry of someone living at a high altitude, I am quite sure my blood oxygen levels would plummet without being able to run my APAP. Having several short (few hrs) power outages recently has reminded me that I want to replace my aging/not holding a charge as it used to GoalZero Escape battery before winter. Clueless about electricity, I need a simple plug and play device, so this one will be my goto. CPAP rewiewers using my APAP report getting up to 5 nights without the humidifier using CPAP mode near my average pressure. https://www.amazon.com/MAXOAK-Airsense- ... 158&sr=8-3

I think backup power is critical for all CPAP therapy users but not for a second do I believe insurance companies will ever pay for it...profit rules.

Even if you gave every new XPAP user a rechargeable battery pack that would power it for 3 days, (paid for your neighbors), of course.

1. Most of the users wouldn't be smart enough to hook it up, and after 6 months it would be discharged so low from sitting it would be useless.

2. The Government would need to assign people to keep it charged up and hook it up for you.

3. And a Special Dog and Handler, to sniff out the battery, from where you stored it.

Batteries require effort to maintain and use. If you can't set up your battery system, it won't be of use to anyone. Jim

My spare cpap (devillbiss Intellipap) can be used off the power outlet in the car.
Stopping at rest areas, I avoid headaches by using the "cigarette lighter" plug.
I could use it while on the road, but the bullfrog's driving scares the crap out of me.
On one trip, I fell asleep; and woke up as he pulled into a rest stop
directly behind a semi tractor being towed backwards.

Goofproof wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:30 am

1. Most of the users wouldn't be smart enough to hook it up, and after 6 months it would be discharged so low from sitting it would be useless.

2. The Government would need to assign people to keep it charged up and hook it up for you.

3. And a Special Dog and Handler, to sniff out the battery, from where you stored it.

I didn't read this entire thread, but this seems to hit the nail on the head. Everything the government or insurance gets involved in gets screwed up quickly.

No thank you. I'll take care of my own emergency needs.