How do ABAP machine calculate AI and HI after a night?

Hello to all,

Because of power outlet issues, my former machine (a Kaerys) has been replaced by a new one, same model, same set up (ABAP, with bump, Pressure 8 - 15).
Because of what I explain below, I has this new Kaerys replaced again by a third one. But Second and Third Kaerys show the exact same strange behaviour.
Lets call the first one K1, and the 2 others k2 and K3.

the result is quite different between K1 on one side, and K2 and K3 on the other. :
-the K2 and K3 machine measures much more AI and HI than what K1 did.
-the K2 and K3 go much higher in pressure, and stays high (close to PMAX) which wakes me several time during the night. I have to stop the machine and restart it.

So I see 3 possibilities for this strange behaviour :
Possibility 1) For some reasons, the K2 and K3 are detecting apneas which the K1 didn't detect. It reacts to it going much higher in pressure.
Possibility 2) The reaction to apneas of the new machine is different (stronger) and maybe generates (because of pressue going up to 15 or 16) other apneas like central ones which reflects in higher AI and HI.
Possibility 3) Something has changed in my apneas, exactly when the machine has been changed (which are really can't believe)

To be able to dig into this, and solve it,I need to understand what are exactly the AI and HI which the machine gives after one night.

My undertsanding is that, for ABAP machines :
1-the machine is setup with a minimum pressure (8 in my case). This pressure allows the machine to eliminate a large part of the apneas, meaning they do not happen anymore.
2-when an apnea happens anyway, then the machine reacts to it by increasing its pressure and using its bump effect.
-The AI and HI measured at the end of the night are actually the number of Apena / Hypo... that the machine sees as part of 2)

Is my understanding right?

Thanks for your help

Pierre

I think you are in there Pierre. that is it in simple form.

keep reading here this forum has a large amount of imformation, I learn new things here every day

Sleep well
Chris

The Kaerys brand is not common (and may not be available) in the U.S. But most APAPs (Automatic Positive Airway Pressure) operate similarly.

Of your possibilities, I agree that #1 and #2 make the most sense. But much depends on your leak rate. What has that been? Have you changed masks?

Your understanding of the operation of APAPs is correct. But are you sure that 8 is preventing the majority of your events?

AHI = (number of apneas + number of hypopneas) / hours used. AHI is a measure of events per hour.

After two bad machines in a row, I think they would have a fight on their hands trying to get me to take a third one home. APAP's sense the flow of your breathing and adjust the pressure as needed, providing your leak rate is low, and you don't have the pressure range set so badly that the machine can't react in time. Jim

I take it you mean you have and Automatic Bi-level PAP machine.

If that is so, then in order have the identical setup, they have to have the following identical setting.

First K------ Other K
IPAP min = IPAP min -- this refers to minimal inhalation pressure
IPAP max = IPAP max -- this refers to maximal inhalation pressure
EPAP min = EPAP min -- this refers to minimal exhalation pressure
EPAP max = EPAP max -- this refers to maximal exhalation pressure

Additionally, whateve defines the range between the IPAP and the EPAP shoud be set identically on the machines.

You only mention one range of numbers. What type of machine do you have?

O.

Hello,

I thank you for your feedbacks. Will try to answer most of the questions.

The Kaerys is a french brand, but their website has disappeared which is never a good sign.

The clinician menu allows to set up only :
-the Mode (CPAP, CPAP with bump, ABAP, ABAP with Bump)
-The Pressure Min the machine is providing
-The Pressure Max the machine is providing
-The “Reactivity of ABAP : slow or fast
-The Ramp (Yes or no)
-The Bump level : Low or strong

I understand that IPAP min corresponds to Pressure Min
I understand that IPAP max corresponds to Pressure Max

I don’t see anything about EPAP Min or EPAP Max

I kept the same mask while changing the machines (Resmed Quattro)
I am not familiar with Leak monitoring and do not really understand how this parameter enters in the whole process. But what I can say is that
-for K1 : based on a former report, the leak spanned from 30 to 50 (I believe the unit is Liters per minute)
for K2 and K3, the mask leaking a lot is the thing which wakes me up when the pressure gets very high. I don’t have any measurement but will try to get one shortly.

Am I sure that 8 is preventing most of the events ?: since it is ABAP mode, I have been toldnd that 8 for Pressure Min is already a high value.

Regards,

Pierre

Pierre - it is Apap, not Abab .

Hello to all,

I finally had the opportunity to test a Resmed S9 Autoset for a month. The result is Ok, in term of the way I feel, not great.

This a view comparing the values I got (Kaerys 1, 2 and 3 are the same machines type, same settings - All machines have the same settings Low = 8, high = 16)

Period / Machine /Average(AI Obstructive)/ verage (AI Central) /Average (AI - all type) /Average HI / Average P95 / Note
Dec 07 - April 08 / Resmed S8 / NA / NA / 1,44 / 3,32 / 11,42 / Instable results from one night to the other

May 08 - March 10 / Kaerys (1) / NA / NA / 0,33 / 0,67 / 8,4 / Bump effect set - Power broken - machine changed to Kaerys 2

march 10 - June 10 / Kaerys (2) / NA / NA / 1,7 / 3,2 / 11,3 / Bump effect set. Machine reaching Very high pressures for long period, leaks

June 10 - August 10 / Kaerys (3) / NA / NA / 1,27 / 1,35 / 10,3 / Bump effect set. Machine reaching Very high pressures for long period, leaks

Sept 10 / Resmed S9 Autoset / 2,23 / 0,62 / 2,85 /0,34 / 12,65 / EPR set to 3 - feeling ok but not great

I am actually a little bit lost with these results. It shows inconsistencies between the machines results (probably the kaerys 1 was not woring fine), but the S9 shows few H and much more Apenas than the oher machines.
Also, I feel a big difference between a night with AHI around 1 (rare) vs a night with AHI at 3.

I met a new doctor this morning. He told me that the high pressure he sees (seems that 12 as P95 average is high for him), while there are remaining apneas could be a "upper airways resistance", which I never heard about before.
As a conclusion, he wants me to do another night in hospital to make the measures with my machine S9.

I am interested in any feedback you may have on this

Regards,

Pierre

Hi!

I just bought a Kaerys KSX Bump, autocpap with automatic pulse, and I am looking for manual or better the monitoring software, or even better a way to link it to OSCAR.
Anyone can help?

I can provide menu access combinations for those who need to adjust the settings:
Keys 2+1 from left to right access the parameters settings menu,
Keys 2+5 access the date/time settings menu.

It is the first device for me, so I am studying the use of speciffic parameters and what they mean for the patient.

Regards.

Please delete--I always regret posting in a zombie thread.

Zombie threat alert folks.

Old dead thread resurrected by a newbie who apparently needs some help with some unknown, to us, machine.
He's been posting this same post in multiple threads...so not sure what to make of it yet but the company that made that cpap machine I can't find any reference to and links in old posts that talked about it are dead.

So I don't know if we can help today's poster or what....remains to be seen.

Chunky - it's not French (for the record) and he also keeps misspelling apnea.

Not likely to find any help. http://www.aveemedisurg.com/kaerys.html maybe these people if they are still around. (New Delhi) India. The makers web site doesn't work either. Jim

Julie wrote: ↑

Fri May 24, 2019 11:11 am

Chunky - it's not French (for the record) and he also keeps misspelling apnea.

Since he hasn't been on the forum for nine years, I can't really see how it matters in the least.

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑

Fri May 24, 2019 9:20 am

Julie wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:28 am

Pierre - it is Apap, not Abab .

Julie, ABAP might be the translation in FRENCH.
Just guessing here.

Someone earlier guessed "Automatic Bi-level PAP machine"...Julie didn't like it back then either... Lol