Learning to Keep Mouth Closed

Barb (Seattle) · Post by **Barb (Seattle)** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:47 am

mikemoran wrote:Yes, I have been able to train myself. The trick I found was to be real conscious of where I place my tongue as I go to sleep. I make sure I tuck the tip up against the roof, right behind the ridge. I also practiced it during the day, making sure I was aware of it when I breathed through my nose.
. When I woke up mouth breathing I just started automatically moving my tongue to the right place. Took a month or so, but the chin strap has been put away for some time now.
.

I've been trying for over 9 years to stop this mouth breathing...THIS is one thing I haven't tried yet.....I started practicing this the minute I read it. Hope it works

Barb (Seattle) · Post by **Barb (Seattle)** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:52 am

Weekend Update

well, I tried the tongue trick during the day. The first night it didn't work at alllll. I tried for 3 hours to try to sleep - every time I relaxed, my tongue popped open, waking me up. So...I put the chin strap on, and promtly fell asleep. The last two nights, I decided I'm NOT wearing the chin strap. So, I cranked the humidifier all the way up (I believe the Humidair goes to 6?) and layed down. SSSSso great with only the mask on! My mouth was a little dry in the morning, but it didn't wake me up. Not sure what my tongue was doing, I slept pretty well. I wasn't too sleepy in the afternoon. My numbers weren't as good as they should be though. 30 some hypopneas, and 5.6 apneas. Hopefully, it will get better as time goes on.

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 3:01 am

Bill,

I had fallen in love with one particular nasal mask (unbranded) that has no hard platic parts & sits very well on my face & allowed me great freedom of position - I once slep on my face (with face on edge of my pillow).

This mask was magnificent. I felt I would never go back to my formerly liked f/f.

Then it began, after 2 weeks I started to become aware of mouth air escaping - so I tightened my chinstrap (Respironics Premier).

But at 3 weeks I had 5-8 mouth bursts & sadly had to switch back to my f/f mask

I was convinced that 7 months of xPAP had trained me to hold my tongue & mouth the right way. I was sooo convinced into my 2nd week on the nasal pillow mask.

But it seemed that switching masks changed my breathing dynamics & eventually I had to switch.

In another week I will go back to my nasal pillows mask to see if I can perhaps at least do 2 weeks about between f/f mask & nasal pillows.

One more lesson I believe I have learned from this is that masks & brathing dynamics vary greatly between us & what works for one is uniquely personal to that individual. I will no longer ever try to tell someone else what mask will work for them. It just doesn't work out that way.

Cheers

DSM

roztom · Post by **roztom** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:31 am

Mouth Leaking:

That is the "latest" in a series of challenges I am facing. When I relax and fall asleep or when I awake in the morning, air slowly leaks from my tongue and fills up my mouth until it sputters out my lips.

This is happening with both my Swift and my Nasal mask.

I am going to try a chin-strap but I don't expect it to work. I guess the next stop will be a FF mask or lip taping. GRRRR

I read a post here that the best tape to use for lip taping was JOhnson & Johnson Adhesive tape but I'm not sure.

Tom

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): swift

NightHawkeye · Post by **NightHawkeye** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:52 pm

dsm wrote:This mask was magnificent. I felt I would never go back to my formerly liked f/f.

Exactly the way I've felt for the past few weeks, DSM. However . . ., now I am, in fact, contemplating going back to the ff mask because of mouth pops.

For me, it mostly seems to be that my mouth pops open with the nasal masks and then I awaken shortly afterwards from the loud rush of air escaping through my mouth. What's worse is that it seems to be apneic events that cause the air to pop my mouth open. All other things being equal, one way to solve it would be to simply run the pressure up high enough in straight CPAP mode that the apneas never occur. Unfortunately, I have had a terrible problem with aerophagia, including cramps, when my pressure goes up. The aerophagia actually does seem to be slowly resolving (very slowly!) and so maybe I will be able to eventually tolerate a constant CPAP pressure near 12 cm, which is what it appears will be required to resolve all my apneas on most nights, so as not to induce mouth pops.

In the interim (you'll love this DSM), I have the thought of using a wide chin strap (already on order from cpap.com) in conjunction with my Ultra Mirage FF mask. It appears to me that the chin strap should be able to counteract the tendency of the FF mask to push my chin back under high pressure. I'm really hoping that this way, I'll be able to essentially eliminate the occasional oxygen desaturations which I keep seeing and which still cause me grief, albeit not anywhere near the grief I experienced prior to xPAP.

I'll also be able to see what, if any, benefit a chin strap can provide in conjunction with my nasal masks. I'm so not optimistic about though that I wouldn't have ordered a chin strap simply for use with the nasal masks.

Regards,
Bill

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 12:48 am

I have worked in the sleep field and when I had my PSG done, a few hours into the study I started with CPAP, I noticed I was waking up with my mouth open and the noise, and after a few times I thought, I should have the tech bring in a chinstrap but went back to sleep instead.
When I was getting unhooked the tech and I were talking about all the PSG stuff, since she and I had worked together, and I commented on the mouth breathing, she said it only happened as I was waking up(they can tell by your brain waves when you wake) and thats when the leak would get bad.
So, your mouth breathing maybe happening when your slightly waking up anyway, and isnt really the source of your wakening, its just the noise/sensation thats making it stand out to you.
Just my 2-cents

Moogy · Post by **Moogy** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:01 am

Ok, this is a weird plan, but in the middle of the night a few days ago I got this idea, and I tried it and it worked for me. Your mileage may vary.

I got a baby pacifier and stuck it in my mouth when I went to bed with the BIPAP. Woke up after many hours of great sleep with the pacifer still in my mouth, no detectable leaks around the mouth. Prior to this brainstorm, my tongue kept running into my teeth and I had trouble keeping the mouth closed even when awake.

I did feel a bit silly trying this, but it helped.

Moogy

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:04 am

What's worse is that it seems to be apneic events that cause the air to pop my mouth open. All other things being equal, one way to solve it would be to simply run the pressure up high enough in straight CPAP mode that the apneas never occur.

"Seems to be" is the key phrase. More likely, imho, is that you were already letting treatment air escape from your mouth to the extent that not enough treatment pressure is going the right way to keep your airway open. Airway collapses and apnea happens.

Mouth air leaks are one of the biggest problems for many of us. If the tongue does not stay in a sealing position within the mouth during totally relaxed sleep, mouth air leaks will happen, even through loosely closed lips. And it's kinda' like a mask leak...once a little spot is breeched, whether its a mask cushion or through the lips, the leak can grow bigger and bigger.

PEELS · Post by **PEELS** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:48 am

Moogy,

The baby pacifier method sounds interesting. If I am not mistaken, you can download your data. If you try using the pacifier a few times and are able to mark down the nights that you use it, see what difference it makes with the leaks in your data compared to not using the pacifier. That would be an interesting test. May it would be worth a try.

Thanks,

George

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:29 am

I got a Respironics Chin Strap and with a very low level of expectation I gave it a try.

The darn thing actually seems to be helping.

It has greatly reduced my mouth and tongue leaks.

IN addition it has helped stabilize my Mirage Nasal Mask since I put it on over my mask straps it kind of helps hold my mask in place so I get less leaks at the mask.

I am achieveing a 22-25 leak avg and no large leaks WITH the strap as oppossed to 40% without and having some blowouts.

MY wife thinks I'm nuts right now - If I added a pacifier to the equation there's no telling what she would think, say or do

Can you imagine a nasal mask, chin-strap AND a pacifier? If I saw a picture of that I'd lose it !!! I'm not negating the practical application of the solution just the visual is something else.

Tom

roztom · Post by **roztom** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:32 am

The guest was me.

Amigo · Post by **Amigo** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:48 am

roztom wrote:Can you imagine a nasal mask, chin-strap AND a pacifier? If I saw a picture of that I'd lose it !!! I'm not negating the practical application of the solution just the visual is something else.

Tom

Oh Tom, I just cannot stop laughing imagining that picture!

As someone who has started having problems with his yap falling open during the night after over 2 years of CPAP, I've been investigating several solutions.

A Full-Face mask is out of the question because of my rampant claustrophobia, and the chin strap alone just isn't doing its job anymore.

Taping, although it works, plays havoc with my skin. The Johnson & Johnson waterproof tape causes intermittent itching, and always leaves a sticky residue. Micropore and Durapore are so difficult to remove they end up taking part of my face with it.

On to the pacifier (and I cannot wait to see the expression on my wife's face...lol!!).

NightHawkeye · Post by **NightHawkeye** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:57 am

Amigo wrote:On to the pacifier (and I cannot wait to see the expression on my wife's face...lol!!).

Now, if you decide to try it Amigo, you need to report back afterwards. We'll be dying to know. That's only fair after all, since the suggestion was provided from here.

Regards,
Bill

roztom · Post by **roztom** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:55 pm

Can't you see it now:

Hose head with a Chin-Strap and a Pacifier?

The New Enhanced Respironics Pacifier with P-Flex.

Less stress on P-exhalation

My wife still hasn't come to terms with all the paraphenalia - she actually complained that all MY STUFF was in the sink soaking so she had to wait to put her stuff in.

She's actually intimated that we need to buy a new house because of my xPAP. "We need a second bathroom for all your hoses."

Hmmm, another bathroom. I didn't think that hose and mask took up that much space?

As far as the Pacifier. Those of you who aren't sure can insert a thumb as a temporary device.

Can you imagine your RT coming over to "install" the new Respironic Pacifier."

How much training do you think they'd need for that?

Can you imagine seeing photo examples on the forum with Mask, Chin-Strap AND Pacifier?

I'm sorry but I'm starting to lose it. This pacifier is pushing me over the edge.

BTW my wife affectionately calls my mask the "GARAGE for my Nose."

"Are you putting your Nose in the GARAGE Now?"

I'm glad she isn't actually insulting me. Right?

Tom

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): respironics, hose

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): respironics, hose

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:53 pm

It's only a insult if you loose your sense of humor, if the pacifier idea works, I'll have to put a add in the paper for a wife that sleeps on her left side.

Learning to Keep Mouth Closed

mouth breathing

My homemade cure for mouth leaks

Chin Strap

Re: Chin Strap

Re: Chin Strap