Apria Problems

[james arizona]

Hi All, I am new here and looking for advice. I have sleep apnea. For years i used a local sleep doctor to monitor the condition and purchase CPAP machines and equipment through. Insurance paid for the equipment and it was mine. Every 4-5 years a new machine was qualified. All simple and no issues.

Last year I discovered my old doc had closed shop. But discovered he was at Mayo clinic now. Cool. So I see him and he says I am due a new machine. But Mayo doesn't do that and he directs me to Apria healthcare. My information is sent to them. My insurance given to them. I get the new machine. I sign some document saying I got the machine so they can charge my insurance. All good. I do not read the entire 9 page document. Why would I? Same procedure as before right? Uh no. Any case no bills came in 2019 and all was good.

Until this year. I changed insurance. I had no reason to think I needed to tell Apria. Why would I? I wasn't getting more equipment through them. I never got a bill. I thought Aetna BOUGHT the machine. Ahhhhh, but in February 2020 I get a bill in the mail for $874. I'm like WTF? Looking into it the machine is on a lease. For what period I have no idea. I could buy one for that. More research and discover they billed Aetna that amount every month but was written down to an accepted $50. Since I changed insurance they think I'm going to pay $874 a month?

OK I haven't reached them yet. I will see if they use my new insurance to cover Jan and Feb and then Medicare starting March. But this reeks of deception and fraud to me and I expect nothing but hassles based on BBB reviews of this company. Yeah should have read them first but come on - old doctor, Mayo, insurance company. Figured I wasn't part of this. I signed to receive the equipment and who knows what they attached to that 9 page document.

So I am looking for any one with actual experience in this world of BS and how to get disengaged from Apria entirely. I am happy to send their machine back and use my old one or buy one with cash. I am not happy doing business with this deceptive organization.

[LSAT]

Apria sucks..If you search Apria on this board you will see that 90% of the users wish they hadn't used them.

[james arizona]

Thanks. Doesn't seem like I have an out. I don't even have a copy of whatever the agreement is. it is for life? 2 years? No idea.

[Pugsy]

Call Aetna and get the low down from them. They do commonly have a perpetual rental thing going on.
Then call your new insurance and ask them how they want to do things.
If you never owned the machine because it was a perpetual rental...you can send it back and tell them where to go....and you may have to in order to get your new insurance to pay.

BUT...what with deductibles and all that stuff with your new insurance...might just be simpler and cheaper to buy one and avoid all the hassles.

You can still use your new insurance for supplies if you wish even if you don't use them for a machine.

[james arizona]

Call Aetna and get the low down from them. They do commonly have a perpetual rental thing going on.
Then call your new insurance and ask them how they want to do things.
If you never owned the machine because it was a perpetual rental...you can send it back and tell them where to go....and you may have to in order to get your new insurance to pay.

BUT...what with deductibles and all that stuff with your new insurance...might just be simpler and cheaper to buy one and avoid all the hassles.

You can still use your new insurance for supplies if you wish even if you don't use them for a machine.

The issue I think is how do I get out of the arrangement with Apria? I have an old machine I can use. Or I'd be happy to buy one at the standard cost of about $800. I know when I picked up the machine I signed a bunch of stuff. I "thought" it was just authorization for them to bill Aetna to pay for the machine. If it is a lease there might not be an out.

[Pugsy]

There's always an out on a lease.

Call up Aetna and explain the situation. I don't know if your particular plan was a lease to own plan or not but a lot of them are.
You are going to have to get with both insurance companies to get this sorted out....Starting with Aetna.

When/if you return the machine make sure you get someone's signature that you returned it and they accepted it....

[james arizona]

Thanks. I'll look into it.

[Janknitz]

We call them Crapria for a reason, and you do have to watch because their billing is wrong about 99.999 percent of the time.

That being said, you didn't do your homework before or after changing insurers.

First, are you Medicare already or does your Medicare begin in March???

Medicare rules are specific. If you aren't on a Medicare Part C plan (HMO or PPO) Medicare covers the CPAP machine as a 13 month rent to own. You owe the deductible every year ($198), plus a co-payment (13 months was deliberately chosen so you have to pay the deductibles for two years). If you have been on Medicare all along and never got a bill, Aetna has been paying the deductibles and co-pays for you, but sounds like your new insurer does not. If you were on an HMO or PPO Medicare plan, the rental can be perpetual. That means the beginning of EVERY year you may get hit with a deductible, plus a monthly fee every month. You need to know if that's the case with your new insurer.

If you are not on Medicare yet (and if you will be going on Medicare in March you get the fun of start all over AGAIN with a brand new deductible and co-payments), then you have to know if Aetna purchased the machine for you or if it was on some sort of rental. The new insurer gets to start the rental all over again if they rent rather than purchase. But if Aetna paid in full last year for a purchase, Crapria doesn't get to rent out a paid for machine (doesn't mean they won't try!). You need to know exactly what transpired. You also need to know if the current $895 is for purchase or rental of the machine by your new insurer. Are you even certain your new insurer covers DME? Mine does for "essential equipment" but they don't consider a CPAP essential.

From this point on you need to become an informed consumer. You need to know what your current insurer covers and how. Often it makes sense to buy your own machine if you are going to have out of pocket costs equal or near the deductible and co-payment amounts. Especially if you have to deal with Crapria. I'd rather pay $900 for my own machine (and I'm sure I could get a gently used machine for less) than deal with Crapria ever again.

If you are just starting Medicare in March, it's especially important to know if your current machine is a rental or if it was purchased for you already by either insurer. Because if you have to start all over with Medicare in March, you have a new deductible and at least 13 months of co-payments with them. Fun times.

[james arizona]

We call them Crapria for a reason, and you do have to watch because their billing is wrong about 99.999 percent of the time.

That being said, you didn't do your homework before or after changing insurers.

Yes. I realize I may have screwed up. Please consider - this is my 3rd machine. All machines in the past were bought by my insurance. I never had payments or anything like this. When I picked it up I had no idea it was under a lease or rental plan. I had no idea there was even the concept of leasing an $800 machine versus sale.

So yes, I may have screwed up not paying attention to what I was signing. I just wanted a new machine. NOW all I want is information on how to get out of this. And apparently I can't get that because I don't even have a copy of whatever I signed. Makes it hard to determine recourse or get advice.

So I am wondering if there has been any success resolving this by just buying the machine now (I'll pay what one costs new). But my gut says no. They want to screw me over. In which case if new insurance or medicare (starting in March) don't cover it and they think I'm paying them the full $875 a month I'll lawyer up. No way I pay that monthly for this machine. Worst case - they ding my credit. Whatever. I can live with it. I made a mistake. But my primary goal here is to learn if anyone else had a similar experience and found "an out". If so please share it.

[james arizona]

I just want to post a follow up. I contacted Apria. According to them the $874 was for a convert to purchase of the machine. I was fine with that but since it didn't say that on the bill I asked them to send me something in writing stating that by making this payment my obligations to Apria were finished. The phone conversation took over an hour and went up a level but eventually I got what I asked for. Several times they wanted me to make the payment first then send me the form that it was a convert to purchase payment. I refused.

Hope this is the end of it. They made a decent profit renting it for $50 a month for 9 months then selling it to me for essentially the full price of a new machine. But I am OK being out of this system. Hope I am.

[zonker]

I just want to post a follow up.

please follow up on your follow up. i have NO experience with this, but it seems like you got what you wanted in the end.

i'm hoping that things do, indeed, turn out as you've described.

good luck!!

[JP808]

My provider sent me to Apria too. They charged me the co-pay for a “sale” of the cpap which I didn’t mind. However, when I read the terms, I was concerned that I would have to return the machine if I lost my insurance or would be on the hook for the cost of the machine.

Before I paid, I made sure to ask if paying the co-pay would mean I own the machine since it said “sale” on the transaction column. The rep said that I would indeed own the machine after making payment. But, I’m still skeptical. I will be sure to keep my receipt in a safe place in case I run into shenanigans like this.

I hope you get the good end of the stick on this one.

[Janknitz]

I just want to post a follow up. I contacted Apria. According to them the $874 was for a convert to purchase of the machine. I was fine with that but since it didn't say that on the bill I asked them to send me something in writing stating that by making this payment my obligations to Apria were finished. The phone conversation took over an hour and went up a level but eventually I got what I asked for. Several times they wanted me to make the payment first then send me the form that it was a convert to purchase payment. I refused.

Hope this is the end of it. They made a decent profit renting it for $50 a month for 9 months then selling it to me for essentially the full price of a new machine. But I am OK being out of this system. Hope I am.

Essentially what you did is rent the machine for $50/month paid for by your previous insurer and then bought a used machine (used by you but still used) for $895 (apparently your new insurer buys the CPAP but you haven't met your deductible so it all came out of your pocket).

I guess it could be worse--some people change insurers to learn that they have to start all over with the rent to own scheme for the same (now used) machine through the same DME and sometimes they end up on perpetual rental in that case.

You could have said "screw you" to Crapria and bought a brand new machine that would last longer for around that that price, but your out of pocket expenses would have been about the same either way. And Crapria is now on the hook to maintain that machine for 5 years.

Assuming you have straightened this out with the paperwork, your next issue with Crapria is the supplies. You should do a little homework to know the following:
1) What IS your annual deductible? What are your co-pays for DME?
2) Is Crapria your only choice of DME?
3) What is the replacement schedule for your insurer?

Armed with this info you can decide if you want to continue working with Crapria for supplies, how much you may have to pay out of pocket for supplies and is it worth it to even use insurance or buy them yourself (I get mine on Amazon and don't have to deal with Crapria--usually save money and definitely save aggravation). Consider whether or not it's a benefit for you to meet a deductible so that other care during the year is covered.

We usually suggest NOT giving Crapria a credit card to keep on file. Scrutinize their bills carefully they are almost always wrong. And beware that when you ask for certain supplies they will often substitute cheaper versions--we've seen non-OEM humidifier tanks, hoses, filters, and mask parts that may cost you out of pocket the same as the OEM. These parts may be fine, but you pay the same out of pocket whether you get OEM or after-market products--I want the real thing.

And there's always the markup. I can buy 52 filters for my ResMed machine for about $10 on Amazon, Crapria charged around $10 each. So keep an eye on things like that.

[james arizona]

Thanks. Yes, you net it out right. However I bought the used machine for a new price to get off the hook. I am relieved to be done with them. And I do not receive supplies from Apria. I haven't since the machine was new. So I "think" I am no longer associated with them in any way. BTW if I had told Apria to pound sand would I not be referred to a collection agency and hounded? I really didn't need that. Instead, I now own the machine and have no relationship. That was the choice I made.

In future I will not trust anyone regarding medical products. I will make certain anything I sign for is PURCHASED not leased.

Assuming I truly am now free and clear of them I confess the people I worked with on the phone did me OK. It took an hour on the phone but I achieved my goal. Separation.

I will update this thread if Apria tries to bill me for anything in future.

[Pugsy]

People also need to read their insurance plans evidence of coverage (which we usually have to ask for as it isn't readily provided) to find out exactly how the plan deals with cpap machines or other supplies.
It was Aetna that started the whole perpetual rental thing to start with in this case. Crapria loves it just for this reason...cash cow long past when most insurance consider it a purchase and they lose that monthly cash rental income.

My own Medicare Advantage plan has the perpetual rental thing now. Used to not have it but they changed it. For this reason I won't ever be using it to get a machine...not that I ever have anyway. I always have found better deals privately.

Straight regular Medicare is still a 13 month capped rental and then you own it.

I am glad you got things sorted out to your satisfaction. I understand why you agreed to it. Avoiding the hassle was worth it to you to not ever have to deal with them again.