My pressure is (Bipap) 15/11 Any Full Face Mask users out there with this type of pressure setting? What about leaks ? Wow ! It seems like I continue to find new wrinkles in my "pap Therapy".
If so.....what's the best FF mask ?
Rich
Full Face Mask with High Pressure ???
I am a cpap user, not bipap, but my current pressure is 17. I switched back to a full face mask in December. It is an ultra mirage full face 2.
I am experiencing many more leaks with the full face mask at this pressure than I did with the mirage nasal mask or my old full face mask. Sometimes a full mask is necessary, as when one has a cold or flu or severe allergies.
Unfortuneately the fisher paykel masks were all too large for my face so I have not tried them. I think the best full face mask diifers for the user. Much depends on the users facial features and sleep habits.
The one thing I would stress is TRY ON THE MASKS if at all possible. Don't just sit there and put the mask on your face. Lay down, I would suggest on the floor if no bed is available. My respitory place provides a recliner but that does not simulate sleep well. TAKE YOUR PILLOW with you. Whether the mask leaks or not often depends on position, side, back , etc.
I wish I remebered who made my old full face mask. It had drawbacks, (the pieces came apart at the touch of a hat). but it leaked much less. It was essentially a nasal mask with an ell to a mouth mask.
Good Luck in finding the right mask for you.
I am experiencing many more leaks with the full face mask at this pressure than I did with the mirage nasal mask or my old full face mask. Sometimes a full mask is necessary, as when one has a cold or flu or severe allergies.
Unfortuneately the fisher paykel masks were all too large for my face so I have not tried them. I think the best full face mask diifers for the user. Much depends on the users facial features and sleep habits.
The one thing I would stress is TRY ON THE MASKS if at all possible. Don't just sit there and put the mask on your face. Lay down, I would suggest on the floor if no bed is available. My respitory place provides a recliner but that does not simulate sleep well. TAKE YOUR PILLOW with you. Whether the mask leaks or not often depends on position, side, back , etc.
I wish I remebered who made my old full face mask. It had drawbacks, (the pieces came apart at the touch of a hat). but it leaked much less. It was essentially a nasal mask with an ell to a mouth mask.
Good Luck in finding the right mask for you.
High pressure and full face for most seem to be mutual exclusives. With a full face mask you need to make sure that you are following the fitting instructions exactly. The ultra mirage comes with a cd that shows you how to put it on. Watch that. Made a big difference for me. I still had leaks, but they weren't as bad.
Good Luck!
Good Luck!
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dakustomizer05
Ive been on my c-pap machine for 2 days now....its a devillbiss 9000 with a Hans Rudolph full face mask....pressure is set to 14.
ive tried everything, but it still leaks a little around the brisge of my nose..but not extremely bad...ive heard alot of full dace masks tend to leak a bit at high pressures...guess its something else to comply to...lol
ive tried everything, but it still leaks a little around the brisge of my nose..but not extremely bad...ive heard alot of full dace masks tend to leak a bit at high pressures...guess its something else to comply to...lol
Re: Full Face Mask with High Pressure ???
Hi Rich,53now wrote:My pressure is (Bipap) 15/11 Any Full Face Mask users out there with this type of pressure setting? What about leaks ? Wow ! It seems like I continue to find new wrinkles in my "pap Therapy".
If so.....what's the best FF mask ?
Rich
I have an ultra Mirage FF mask and a ResMed VPAP III set at 18/12. The FF mask simply won't hold up to the high pressure. The leaks are many and the mask "burps" (actually sounds like a different bodily function) at the point of exhalation. I've tried adjusting the darn thing sixteen ways from Sunday. No luck. However, my Mirage Activa Nasal Mask is performing beautifully! The F&P masks (both FF and nasal) did not work for me. Both had to have the straps pulled so tight it caused too much discomfort to sleep. I recently purchased a RemStar Auto with C-Flex. When I get it set up, I will try the Mirage FF mask again. Good luck.
I've been having the same difficulty with the Ultra Mirage FF. It was suggested to me on this site to fit the mask at my pressure (17/13) instead of while the machine was off (somehow, I thought the opposite made more sense). I tried that this weekend and it was better; infact last night, I refused to take the mask off, (when I went to the bathroom, I just unhooked the hose) and aside from a few leaks early in the evening, my night was much better and the alarm clock actually woke me up - which hasn't happened since my second night. So I'm trying to give it some time and in the next couple of weeks if I feel the need, I'm going to try one of the nasal pillow interfaces and a chin strap.
Just hang in there, I'm only into my second week, but I would think that you're at a more critical phase where you just have to find a way through the setbacks and decide that you're going to work with this therapy no matter what little discomforts it throws at you. The other options are much more serious illnesses that can be much more uncomfortable. We're all pulling for you.
Just hang in there, I'm only into my second week, but I would think that you're at a more critical phase where you just have to find a way through the setbacks and decide that you're going to work with this therapy no matter what little discomforts it throws at you. The other options are much more serious illnesses that can be much more uncomfortable. We're all pulling for you.
I have never seen the righteous forsaken . . .
Re: Full Face Mask with High Pressure ???
Rich53now wrote:My pressure is (Bipap) 15/11 Any Full Face Mask users out there with this type of pressure setting? What about leaks ? Wow ! It seems like I continue to find new wrinkles in my "pap Therapy".
If so.....what's the best FF mask ?
Rich
I've been on CPAP at pressure of 14 for 4 weeks now and haven't had much luck getting a good seal with Nasal Pillows (heavy mustache, nasal mask won't work). Had to rig a strap to keep the pillows tight against the nostrils. No more leaks with the pillows but another problem - pressure now leaks out past my lips with my jaw shut when I fall asleep. Tried taping lips but pressure would still force itself out and wake me up - just can't win.
Bought an Ultra Mirage full face mask because of mouth leaks. Nice mask, very comfortable, no pressure on the bridge of my nose, but still struggling with leaks. Only had the mask about a week. I seem to be getting it adjusted better every day, actually went one night with no leaks. I chose this mask because of numerous favorable comments on this message board. Never had another full face mask to compare it with but I like it. I also noticed the pressure is much easier to take with this mask. Had a really hard time exhaling with the nasal pillows, but barely notice it with the Ultra Mirage.
Tom
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rested gal
- Posts: 12883
- Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:14 pm
- Location: Tennessee
BiPap pressure of 15/11. Hmmm, if that were the machine and pressure I was prescribed, I really, really think I'd ask for a trial on autopap with C-Flex.
There's always the chance that a person prescribed 15 inhalation pressure on a bi-level machine doesn't actually need that much pressure except briefly (if at all) during the night.
An autopap might allow you to sleep at lower pressures most of the night. Lower pressures usually mean less mask troubles - fewer mask leaks. C-Flex set at "3" (the max drop in exhalation pressure with C-Flex) might be all the exhalation relief you need, especially if the autopap were able to treat you well at pressures lower than the present 15.
Just a thought from someone who is not a doctor. Sometimes we have to take more control of our own treatment.
There's always the chance that a person prescribed 15 inhalation pressure on a bi-level machine doesn't actually need that much pressure except briefly (if at all) during the night.
An autopap might allow you to sleep at lower pressures most of the night. Lower pressures usually mean less mask troubles - fewer mask leaks. C-Flex set at "3" (the max drop in exhalation pressure with C-Flex) might be all the exhalation relief you need, especially if the autopap were able to treat you well at pressures lower than the present 15.
Just a thought from someone who is not a doctor. Sometimes we have to take more control of our own treatment.
Talked with my doctor about the possibility of using an autopap instead of the Bilevel. He said ....absolutely not !! During my sleep study I had 282 abnormal Respiratory events in 180 minutes of total sleep time. 232 Obstructive Hypopneas and 50 Apneas. Quick math (or poor math in my case) tells me that I have a Respiratory event ever 37.8 seconds.
So.......guess I'll continue on with my Bipap
So.......guess I'll continue on with my Bipap
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WillSucceed
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:52 am
- Location: Toronto, Ontario
Bi-pap
Rested Gal wrote:
I complained until I got the insurance company to pay for an autoPAP (PB 420E) and now I'm doing great. I sleep the whole night through and, as Rested Gal mentioned, only get the higher pressure during those brief periods that I need it. Most often, the pressure is down around 9-10.
I think that autoPAP is a really good option for most and, at the least, is worth checking out by trialing a machine. Be aware, however, that not all autoPAP machines are the same. While they are all good, one might suit you better than another. For me, the Puritan-Bennett 420E was the best fit -->I felt the best in the morning and throughout the day after sleeping with it. The worst was the RemStar Auto -->it did not seem to give me enough pressure during the night and I felt tired during the day.
A person's response to a machine is highly individual; if possible, trial several autoPAP machines to find the one that fits you best.
Stick with it, and best of luck.
I'd be really inclined to listen to Rested Gal and push for a trial/study with autoPAP. I was prescribed a pressure of 15 on straight CPAP. I bought the machine (RemStar with C-Flex) and hated it. Could not stand the high pressure (chest pain and bloating) and really hated the C-Flex. I turned the C-Flex feature off and did a bit better, but still had lots of pain and bloating. You can imagine whtat the gas was like every morning... yikes!!BiPap pressure of 15/11. Hmmm, if that were the machine and pressure I was prescribed, I really, really think I'd ask for a trial on autopap with C-Flex
I complained until I got the insurance company to pay for an autoPAP (PB 420E) and now I'm doing great. I sleep the whole night through and, as Rested Gal mentioned, only get the higher pressure during those brief periods that I need it. Most often, the pressure is down around 9-10.
I think that autoPAP is a really good option for most and, at the least, is worth checking out by trialing a machine. Be aware, however, that not all autoPAP machines are the same. While they are all good, one might suit you better than another. For me, the Puritan-Bennett 420E was the best fit -->I felt the best in the morning and throughout the day after sleeping with it. The worst was the RemStar Auto -->it did not seem to give me enough pressure during the night and I felt tired during the day.
A person's response to a machine is highly individual; if possible, trial several autoPAP machines to find the one that fits you best.
Stick with it, and best of luck.
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rested gal
- Posts: 12883
- Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:14 pm
- Location: Tennessee
Far be it from me to argue with someone's doctor (heheh)....but....During my sleep study I had 282 abnormal Respiratory events in 180 minutes of total sleep time. 232 Obstructive Hypopneas and 50 Apneas. Quick math (or poor math in my case) tells me that I have a Respiratory event ever 37.8 seconds.
I don't know if the sheer number of events or "severity" of a person's OSA rated by the AHI or RDI has much to do with how much pressure is actually needed to take care of things.
What if pressures a lot lower than 15 would prevent the majority of those events?
I do equally well on the 420E and the REMstar auto/c-flex. Also did well on the Spirit for the week or two I used it.
The nice thing about the REMstar Auto is that C-Flex can be turned off if a person doesn't like that feature. Even so, WillSucceed makes a good point that there are a few people for whom one specific autopap gives them better results, as the 420E does for him. Either machine does great for me, but I usually suggest the REMstar for two reasons:
Some people really do need (or just like) the exhalation relief of C-Flex.
The REMstar might work better "straight out of the box" for more people.
Example, I was getting runaway pressure with the 420E until I turned off IFL1 which by default is "on". It was with some trepidation that I later bought a REMstar Auto (before C-Flex was added) knowing that it had no IFL settings to tinker with. If it had "run away" too, there would be nothing I could do about it. But the REMstar, out of the box, was perfectly behaved.
Luckily, through advice from the message board poster, -SWS, I was able to do something to make my 420E behave and treat me well. It's still one of my favorite machines, particularly because of the excellent Silverlining software.
My point is - I did have to "do something" to the 420E, and never had to do anything to the REMstar. I seriously doubt that most doctors or DMEs or RTs would have had any idea what was causing the pressure runaway for me with the 420E, or what to do about it.
The 420E is a great machine and works fine "as is" for most people. It is interesting, though, how many posters have had to turn off IFL1 to bring their 420E to heel. For a long time, I thought I was just one of those rare cases that the 420E didn't work well for "straight out of the box".
The advanced settings in the 420E are fantastic to have, for the people who might need some very precise tweaking.
Again, though, I don't know if many doctors/DMEs would have a clue about those settings or what they are used for.
If I'd been under the tender care of most sleep doctors and DMEs rather than being a message board denizen, I'd probably have been hearing, "That's the problem with autopaps - they don't work well - obviously they don't work for you - you need a plain cpap."
Both machines worked well for me - the 420E with message board help, and the REMstar "straight out of the box."
All that said, of course you should stay with the type of machine you feel comfortable about using, Rich. Just as WillSucceed is with his 420E, and I am with practically any machine. Maybe someday ResMed will get an Activa FF out there for you.
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guest
High pressures
Well, the Dr. analyzing my sleep studies recommended a CPAP machine with a pressure of 23. So that's what my GP told the DME to provide. Keep in mind that neither Dr. discussed the studies with me.
Since my DME didn't have a straight CPAP machine that delivered more than 20cm, he supplied me with a Respironics BiPap 2 Pro set at 23/23. The CFlex is disabled. I have the Ultra Mirage II Full Face mask and had a lot of problems with it - both the hose connection that squeals and the cushion seals making squeaky/squealy/farty noises.
I've been on this a week now and have learned some things that might help with the mask.
1. The CD Video provides some excellent advice on fitting
2. I now adjust the mask (sitting up but testing with various head movements) at FULL pressure instead of the ramp up pressure (or none). The video will tell you that putting the mask on too tight will cause squealing and they are right.
3. I was placing the mask too high on my face. It should have the top cushion just on the top of the nose bridge (at least that works for me)
4. Try the hight adjustment on the nose/forehead connection - my DME never mentioned it to me.
5. The hose connection squeal seems to go away if I disconnect the hose, reseat the c clamp and then reconnect - but I can see it may turn into a problem.
6. I was trying to scratch under the mask at full pressure by pulling the mask away just enough to reach under the cushions. I have learned that this does not work. At my pressure (and I suspect at yours too), the edges of the cushions are forced out where they stay instead of curling back under to reform an air seal. Then they are just like a reed for a wind instrument and produce an amazing variety of sounds.
I have learned how to make some of the DME setting changes and have just changed my pressure to 21/18 and added a Rise time of 2. I still haven't figured out how to turn the CFlex on though. Since my Dr (GP) didn't order a humidifier, the DME didn't supply one. I have talked to him and he is getting the GP to prescribe one.
I plan to give this particular setup a month and then go back to my GP for a long talk. My guess is he knows little or nothing about Apnea other than the general knowledge. I have learned a LOT in just a week of skimming the net and watching 2 forums. It certainly seems that with the current setup, the only way they can gauge its success is my subjective reporting combined with usage data. It sure seem like an APAP trial with at least AHI tracking would provide a better method. The Bipap is twice as expensive as a CPAP ir APAP machine and the insurance is being billed a monthly rental on the BiPap of $342 - 5 month's rental would buy it (and maybe they do that after a trial period.)
It is hard to tell if I feel any better - I have averaged 4 hours per night in the first 8 nights. I am really curious to see if compliance/comfort go up now that I have changed to true BiPap settings. The exhalation pressure at 23 is a real problem for me.
Since my DME didn't have a straight CPAP machine that delivered more than 20cm, he supplied me with a Respironics BiPap 2 Pro set at 23/23. The CFlex is disabled. I have the Ultra Mirage II Full Face mask and had a lot of problems with it - both the hose connection that squeals and the cushion seals making squeaky/squealy/farty noises.
I've been on this a week now and have learned some things that might help with the mask.
1. The CD Video provides some excellent advice on fitting
2. I now adjust the mask (sitting up but testing with various head movements) at FULL pressure instead of the ramp up pressure (or none). The video will tell you that putting the mask on too tight will cause squealing and they are right.
3. I was placing the mask too high on my face. It should have the top cushion just on the top of the nose bridge (at least that works for me)
4. Try the hight adjustment on the nose/forehead connection - my DME never mentioned it to me.
5. The hose connection squeal seems to go away if I disconnect the hose, reseat the c clamp and then reconnect - but I can see it may turn into a problem.
6. I was trying to scratch under the mask at full pressure by pulling the mask away just enough to reach under the cushions. I have learned that this does not work. At my pressure (and I suspect at yours too), the edges of the cushions are forced out where they stay instead of curling back under to reform an air seal. Then they are just like a reed for a wind instrument and produce an amazing variety of sounds.
I have learned how to make some of the DME setting changes and have just changed my pressure to 21/18 and added a Rise time of 2. I still haven't figured out how to turn the CFlex on though. Since my Dr (GP) didn't order a humidifier, the DME didn't supply one. I have talked to him and he is getting the GP to prescribe one.
I plan to give this particular setup a month and then go back to my GP for a long talk. My guess is he knows little or nothing about Apnea other than the general knowledge. I have learned a LOT in just a week of skimming the net and watching 2 forums. It certainly seems that with the current setup, the only way they can gauge its success is my subjective reporting combined with usage data. It sure seem like an APAP trial with at least AHI tracking would provide a better method. The Bipap is twice as expensive as a CPAP ir APAP machine and the insurance is being billed a monthly rental on the BiPap of $342 - 5 month's rental would buy it (and maybe they do that after a trial period.)
It is hard to tell if I feel any better - I have averaged 4 hours per night in the first 8 nights. I am really curious to see if compliance/comfort go up now that I have changed to true BiPap settings. The exhalation pressure at 23 is a real problem for me.
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Feelin' Fab
Hi pressure / ffm
I have Resmed Ultra Mirage FFM and C-Flex, (press at 18 and I don't know what the second # is) and I have only minimal problems with leaks. I'm fortunate to have an outstanding sleep clinic (Morristown Memorial, Morristown NJ) and home health provider (At-Home Medical.) My dr said that it doesn't get any worse than what I had. I forget the #'s, but my oxygen levels were "subhuman" (his word) and the bar chart that shows sleep interruptions was literally one solid blue block of color, with no lines at all! After seeing that I'm happy to be alive!
Initially I slept with a nasal mask for 2 weeks, which was very comfortable. However, I am a committed mouth breather, evidently, and switched to the FFM. The res therapist who helped me was excellent, and sounded very experienced. He said that you always get leaks with FFM at high pressure; they are unavoidable. The important thing is to make sure the bridge doesn't leak (you'll feel it in your eyes) and to try to keep the other leaks small and to a minimum.
If it helps, I find that my sleep does vary slightly from night to night. Most nights I feel great, but once in awhile I'll sleep in some strange position only to be awakened by one of those "indiscreet" noises of a really bad leak. (Heck, my mouth was making the same noise before.) I just try to adjust as needed. The straps do seem to stretch easily, so you may have to tighten them regularly.
I also switch between using a chin strap (the white kind with velcro) most nights, and not using it. (Last night I didn't, and I slept great -- but who knows why?) The chin strap adds some extra security and stability without having to make the mask really tight. Be sure to use the little white straps that come with the chin strap; the only error my home health co made was is saying they were to use when the strap started stretching. In fact, they attach from side to side at the back of your head to keep the chin strap from falling off. (I found this out on a video clip on this site about chin straps.) This made a HUGE difference for me! I put one across the top of my head and one across the bottom, almost at the very nape (so it avoids the headstrap.)
My other suggestions are to talk to your home health care co and/or doctor, or find a qualified respiratory therapist who can help you. This site is great and there is a lot of good advice in the replies to your posting. I'll be using much of it myself!
Good luck to you and everyone else!
Initially I slept with a nasal mask for 2 weeks, which was very comfortable. However, I am a committed mouth breather, evidently, and switched to the FFM. The res therapist who helped me was excellent, and sounded very experienced. He said that you always get leaks with FFM at high pressure; they are unavoidable. The important thing is to make sure the bridge doesn't leak (you'll feel it in your eyes) and to try to keep the other leaks small and to a minimum.
If it helps, I find that my sleep does vary slightly from night to night. Most nights I feel great, but once in awhile I'll sleep in some strange position only to be awakened by one of those "indiscreet" noises of a really bad leak. (Heck, my mouth was making the same noise before.) I just try to adjust as needed. The straps do seem to stretch easily, so you may have to tighten them regularly.
I also switch between using a chin strap (the white kind with velcro) most nights, and not using it. (Last night I didn't, and I slept great -- but who knows why?) The chin strap adds some extra security and stability without having to make the mask really tight. Be sure to use the little white straps that come with the chin strap; the only error my home health co made was is saying they were to use when the strap started stretching. In fact, they attach from side to side at the back of your head to keep the chin strap from falling off. (I found this out on a video clip on this site about chin straps.) This made a HUGE difference for me! I put one across the top of my head and one across the bottom, almost at the very nape (so it avoids the headstrap.)
My other suggestions are to talk to your home health care co and/or doctor, or find a qualified respiratory therapist who can help you. This site is great and there is a lot of good advice in the replies to your posting. I'll be using much of it myself!
Good luck to you and everyone else!